Bert

And the other kids ........., in what month are they born? How many kids are born in the first three month after September 1? Besides, the variation in month of birth I am also very curious about the way you, or other coaches, do try outs. What are the selection criteria and are you only select for, let's say, the best team for next season or are the goals you set, individual goals for a period of, let's say 6 years?

On http://www.usavolleyball.org/Juniors/2005agedef.asp , I saw the 'key-date' in the USA is September the first......... so I was wondering ................... how many children in you're team are born in the month September, October and December and how many children were born in the other month of the year? Bert

After a game in the NHL some of the visiters find out that all players of both teams were born in only three month of the year ....... the same three month. What was happened???? For the Volley Techno I have written an article about the influance of birthdate at the selection career of a volleyballtalent. Ad Dudink phd of the University of Amsterdam and Jacques van Rossum, also a Phd. do have published some articles about this subject, but they were not the first. In 1970 an other dutch Phd., Karel Doornbos have published some articles and books about the same subject, but now in the schoolcareer of children. What's the problem, in 1970 Doornbos said: "When we tested children in a class, we want that every children of that class do the same things, knows the same things, but is that correct? Is it fair when we tested children from one class or a whole levelgroup, on the same subjects? No, that is not fair, Doornbos said. When we look at those tests, we see that every time the older children make the tests better than the younger children in class. In the Netherlands, Doornbos said, most of the younger children get troublle in their schoolcareer. Is that because younger children are less intelligent than the older children? No, of course not, Doornbos said again. Older children are only older, have more experience, are futher in their development, education ect ect. When we look at the classes we can see that in every class the children born in the first month after the 'selectiondate' do things better and the children who were born in tha last three month do things worser. When we change that date, it's not the solotiun, because we see that then other children are the best (the older children) and another group of children will get in trouble. Dudink and Van Rossum find out that in sport we do have the same problem. Of course, we work also with a kind of a class (selectiongroups) and when we select children we also want all the children do the same. Those children who cant't don't get in the team. Is that fair? No, again that's not fair. Why, because when we select children we mostly looked at fysical things, how fast is someone, how tall is someone ect. ect. Children can be very different in those things and in one year children can change a lot. Also in sport, in volleyball, older children will be selected and younger children won't. This is bad for the motivation of children, and most of the younger children (born in the last three month of the year will be drop outs). That's not good, because it's won't say that those children can't be talent children who can play in the Nationalteam for example, I have read a lot about your way of looking at children and I like it a lot. I have seen two clinics of you, when you were in Europe, and I enjoy it very much. I hope you can help me. In the Netherlands we are very busy with this problem, we have change the way we do the selection at the national youth teams, but that's not all. Dudink and Van Rossum find out that at the basis, at the clubs, there is big influence of the date of birth at the selections volleyball clubs do. So at the basis, we don't select younger, perhaps, talented children. I am very curious if you know this problem, or if it's the first time when you hear about it? When you know this problem I am very curious what yoo do in the USA to solve this problem? When you look at you're team, in what month are they born, and what is the correspondence between the date of birth and the date of selection (for example over here this date is 1th of oktober, and very much children in selectionteams, at the clubs are born in the first month after 1 october (so October, November and December)............... Bert

Yes, this is great. Of course it's not perfect, but who cares? The rest is for later! Go on and share us you're experience. I like to here it very much. Bert

When you play with a W-formation, I think you mean that you play with 3-1-2 formation, with two setters (2-4). When I am right, why did you play with a 3-1-2 formation and why didn't you play with a 3-2-1 formation? Bert

Are they really lazie or is there a problem with there technique (because they for example let the ball drop at their feet)? Perhaps the goals you have set for this team are to high? Or they are not all satisfied with the goals and perhaps so players have there own goals, goals you don't know about? When I have lazie players, the first thing I do is looking at my self, what am doing, how attrative are my lessons? How do I act in the group, am I dominant or perhaps or a more 'laize faire' coach? When you look at the Rose of Tomoty Laery. He says that on every action their will be a reaction and that we get a whole structure of communication and action in a group. When the group has a dominant leader, we always see that the group is lazie and following. When we look at these phenomenons, we can steer the group in other direction. On this website you will find more information about Laery: http://home-6.tiscali-business.nl/~t028692/bijl3.htm (this is a dutch site but I think the picture of the rose of Laery is clear) The second thing I do, when I have this problem is let the group compete against each other. So find competitive drills, were they must compete against each other, who is the best, who is the fastes, who jump the highest and more like this and ..................... ice for the winner! No this is a joke, but seriously, it helps when they get sometime something for things they do good. At last. I always work with longterm programmes, for a year and longer. I make these programmas with the following method: 'When someone is in a big dessert, like the Sahara, someone is only interesting in looking for water when someone is realy, realy thirsty'. I mean when you like someoneto learn something, they always must be motivate to learn something, there must be a necessity for learning something new. When i plan a new program, I always creat a lack, so there is a need you do something about it. I hope my english is good enough and that you know what I mean. When not, plaese say so! Bert

I think calling the ball is good to learn by all kind of games or drills, but it's also a kind of thing they must used to do, so over here we, or I start imediatly with games or drills were children must talk to each other. This has notting to do with volleybal but it's only communication. A nice game is; two children play the ball to each other with a overhand pass, or maybe throw the ball to each other (when they are not so good) and when the play the ball the yell a letter, so player one yell A, and play the ball, player two yell B, than player one again, but he is now yelling C and so on ........ You can play the same kind of dril but now by calling names of boys, or only names of girls, or perhaps names of automobiles ....... There are also a lot of hit and run games where yelling a name or something else is part of the game. Such kind of thing we do, mostly in the warming up. Another thing I do sometimes, they learn a lot about it, but it's also fun, is saying: "He, Ice for the one who yell the loudest. Or I say: "Hé, your parents on the tribune over there must able to hear you!. I think it's also not only calling the ball, but also talking to each other, in other words a team must learn to coach them self (if you know what I mean)........... this is also communication. Bert ....... by the way, my teams are not so quit

Goodmorning everybody, Over the past few years, I have begun to use a very "graphic" method to help them with this. I simple tape their areas out on the floor, and let them play with the tape down until they have a good feel for their coverage. Yes, this is really a great method, I have use it my self. Besides this I should think we must practice a lot on ball between the zones, between two players. I have another sollution or perhaps it's more another questions. When I play my setter is standing on or position 3 ( in the middle) or position 2/3 (between the middle and the right part of court), so when children are passing the ball are most of the times going from left to the right? When we are learning children passing, why shouldn't we learn them, in the first phase of the learning proces the the pass the ball to the left (to position 4) when the serve is going to to lets say position 1, 2 and 6 and that they pass the ball to the right (to position 2) when the serve is going to position 4 and 5. So, there are passing to position 2 when the ball is going to the left part of the court and they are passing to position 4 when the serve is going to right part of the court. When they play like this they never play a pass in an angle, but always straight. This is much earier. When you play with four kids in court, you can play with 4 players in the pass, standig in a half circle, where the setter must run to the net when the ball isn't come his or her direction. So this is even a very dynamic way of playing volleyball. When they play with 6 players in court, you can play par example with 5 passing playing, also in a half circle with a not passing player at position 3. In this game he or she isn;t the setter but on of the spikers. I must say I have never play it my self, but one of the other editors of our coaches magazine was using this way of playing with his team and I must say ............. they were good! Besides him on that clinic I wrote about, the former headcoach of our national team was also talking about this sollution and I must say I agree with it that straight passing is easier that passing in an angle. Bert

I mean 'par example', isn't that good english? Plaese let me know. Bert

Yes, I agree, I should also talk about my coaching philosophy, about what I am going to learn the kids this season, when and with who and how I am going to evaluat the seasom, what the reason is for having a teambook and how they can use it, ect. Bert

Hi John, What a research you did, amazing! Yes, of course, they are no segret. What do you want, I have compleet lessons, I have used for my own teams and I have some drills and exercises on diskettes. I must say not every exercise is used in circulation volleyball. Most of the exercises are used with teams in the age between 10 and 12 years old, and they were also playing on a high level at there age. When you look on http://www.volleybal.nl/html/j-minivolleybal.asp , you will find some exercises specially for circulation volleyball. I have had contact with Adrie Noy and told him about this forum. The webmaster of his website is busy to translated the whole site in english. Around the world world coaches are mailing Adrie about circulation volleyball, from Central America, to Southern Asia to South and Middle Africa. He is also busy with a compleet book. He likes to translated this book also in english. He also told me he has work out some new ideas. We have prommissed each other to make an oppoinment after this weekend, to talk about his book and the new ideas. This weekend I first have a meeting with the editors of our coaches magazine. Bert

Hi MichiganCoach, yes, the exercise you wrote about is a great exercise. I have some others, perhaps these will help too? 1. Let one girl sit on the floor, with her back to you. You throw the ball (par examlpe after you call here name or make another accoustic signal) - she stands up, turn around and search for the ball and catch it. 2. Let one girl lay on the floor - here face in your direction, so she can see you ..... after that it's the same exercise as number 1 Coach | 3. The same organisation as by number 2, but now the girl is laying on the floor with here face in the other direction, like this: Coach | ..........................> 4. Same organisation as exercise 1, but now there are two girls standing, on the other side of the net, with here back to you. One girl on the left part of the court and one on the right part of the court. You serve, after again a accoustic signal. Both girls turn arround, and search for the ball. As soon as possible (when they are good the succeed to do this even before the ball passed the net) the girl who didn't get the ball in here direction is sitting on the floor, the other girl must catch te ball. These are basic exercises, where it's possible to make all kind a different exercises with. When we look at exercise number 4, it's possible that the girl who didn't get the ball in here direction, sit on de floor, stand up riight away, that the girl who do get the ball in here direction play the ball now with a forearm pass and that the first girl, who was just sitting en stand up, must catch the pass........... ecetera, ecetera Bert

I never told my kids to call another name when they are not going for the ball them self. Each player must get the balls in their own zone, when a ball is comming between two zone, we have 'the right hand appointment' - so when the ball is comming between position 5 and 6, the player in position 5 get the ball. When they call the ball, they always call 'Mine' and when they call the ball they must get the ball. Besides that, passing or defending the ball is a team-mission. So in that way I agree with Connie, they must trust on their teammates and always encourage one other to get the ball from the floor. Bert

Hi Connie, Do you agree that it's possible to let kids earn there playing time but also let every kid play the same time at the end of the season? Bert

Hi Connie, I agree, with you're sollution of setting realistic goals! Of course a coach should talk about realistic goals for every player, this will be the best. On that youth clinic, I wrote about in another topic, with that former headcoach of the dutch national team, this coach said that we must set personal goals for every individual player. Are there coaches who do so or are the just working with setting goals for a whole team? By the way, I am sorry, but what are realistic goals? Could a realistic goals of a talented child be a problem for the coach. P.e. this girl I wrote about, she is good, she learn very fastm she wants to play in the national team when she is older, she is ask for a higer team, after just one month of playing ....... when she left our team, my team will be not so good as before. Could is be possible that realistic goals for a child can benot so welcom for the coach, so that the coach won't help her with really setting realistic goals for here? What will be the sollution for this problem? Are there coaches p.e. who have a consultation with other coaches to talk about this kind of problems? Bert Questions, questions, quenstions, I am still very curious.

Hi Janet, I agree with your're sollution on the problem you wrote about, but this was not what I mean, I am sorry, perhaps my question wasn't clear enough. What I mean is 'realy talented children', so children who are realy good. I don't mean those children who only say that they are good, but where every watcher could say that they are not. P.e. a girl in one of my teams. I don't say that she is very good at this moment, this is what other coaches sometimes say. I do think that is is very fast in learning volleyball. She is just 9 years old, she play volleyball since 4 month. She started at our level 4, after one month she was ask to play with level 6 and even on this level all goes well. When someone ask here what she want to do when she is older, she always tell them that she wants to play in the national team. In here own team she is, no discussion the best player, no discussion about that, but ............... because the level she want to reach is so high, because she only want to win, because she ask other girls in here team to join here to reach this goal, it sometimes difficult to deal with...... Bert

I hope you succeed to look on the website, circulation volleyball is in the beginning such a simple game that even children at the age of 5 can play it. In our club we have children at this age, playing this game and they enjoy it very much! The problem you wrote about, is absolutly the biggest problem in 'the old volleyball', this is why the invention of Adrie Noy is so good! Bert

Hello everybody, High gifted children do have a very own opinion about almost everything. It shows that this look like very nice, but it isn't, because, how should you react? A child can also be high gifted in sport, the so called very talented kids. This is sometimes also not very easy for the coach. How should you handle a very talented child, a child who is better then the rest of the team, who ask question about almost everything you tell (as coach), who is right the most of the time (you find out) after that ....................................... What do you do? Are talented kids always also kids with a bad attitude (by the way this isn't my opinion)? How do you handle with those kind of children? I am very curious what other coaches think of this 'problem'? Bert

Hi Connie, I am sorry I ask you again, but I think this discussion is a very good discussion, just because volleyball is a team sport and because there is hardly a sport where the players must trust each other every moment of the game. When you look at p.e. soccer, players do have the change to take a break, even when the game is going on. I was wondering, why do you think that the kids must earn their play time. In my opinion no child have to know when he or she is playing, but every kid must the same time they have played after the whole competition, just because ´playing time, ball contacts, are so important in volleyball´. T could tell you an example, in 1985 I became 3th at the Dutch Campionships, we practice only 2 times a week. The next year we become the 8 place, not becose we play not so good, but in that year, you could look at the ranking and you saw that number 1 practice the most, 5 times a week. Number 2 something less ect., we still practice 2 times a week. I hope you know what I mean. Bert

Or ´dog pile´. The kids laying over each other on the floor, like a ´dog pile´. On the other side of the net, there stand the coach with a ball. He serve with a underhand serve. When he do so, the kids must stand up, the first kid must play the ball with a forearme pass, the second must give a set up and kid 3 or 4 or maybe 5 must spike. This is a great game, where the kids must work together and play volleyball at the same time. Bert

No, I am sorry! I saw the there was a 'l' to much, the website is: www.volleybalnederland.nl Ik hope this will do. Bert

Hi Connie, Perhaps this question is something for another topig, but ........ I am just very curious. You wrote, that in the rec center you work you have only a teaching class and that there is really no competition. Don't they missed the competition? I shall tell you something of the background of this question. Here in the Netherlands we didn't have the possibility for competition volleyball for kids younger than, let say 8 years old. Then, about almost 15 years ago a good friend of my, Adrie Noy, find out a new game. A game what not only a game but a whole method, circulation volleyball. The reason behind this game was that Adrie find out that most children like to compare, like to play games. Here in the Netherlands the kids first learn how to swim and when they have their swimming diplomes, they are allowed to search for another sport. Chilldren are then about 6 years old. When they are at this age, they can play soccer (also in competition), they can play p.e. tennis, field hockey, but they can't play volleyball in competition. Most children then choose for another sport and when they have chosen they almost always stay in this sport. The game Adrie invited can be played even at they age of 5 years old, my own son started when he was 6. At the beginning, at the first level, this game is so easy that every kid can play it also in competition. It's very popular over here and clubs who started with circulation volleyball are groing and groing. Alsmost 10 years ago I wrote an article about Adrie invention. After that we where both ask for the mini-volleyball commission of the dutch volleyball federation and now it's played all over the Netherlands. I also translated this first article in english and published it on a canadian volleyball site. There was a volleyball coach from Iceland who read the article and now it's played also over there, but also in Danmark. At this moment it's even played in some country's in Africa and when you look on Adrie website, www.volleybalnederland.nl, you will say that the questions came from over whole the world. This was a whole story, but the mean reason of this whole idea was that children miss playing games, miss competition. Bert

Hi Connie, You're absolutly right, the best way to avoid this problems at any level is to set up the rules from day one and make sure that they all understand it very good. I have wrote an article over here about bullying in volleyball (this is part of my job) and one of the things I wrote in this article was the importance of the first phase of the groupsproces. Over here many coaches don't think about this, they 'just start a new group' and don't think about this part of the proces. Besides that I also think that the last part of the groupproces is also very important, the moment the group is ended, the players are going there own way, to other groups, other teams ect. There must be time for a good evaluation, because (my opinion) the things they have learn (and I don't mean the volleyball part) can be of a great influance of the way they will act in other groups or other teams. I was wondering, what do you (or any one else!) think: who make the rules in the group? Is this the coach or perhaps the group or may be the coach and the group together? I have my own ideas about this but I am open for any other ideas! Bert

I think running laps or running lines is okay when the target is p.e. improve their condition or the coordination. When it use as punishment I have problems with it. What do they learn? They learn that when they behave badly they will punished but what is the link with volleyball? Two weeks ago I have a clinic, for youth coaches, from a former headcoach of the dutch national team. He told us that the key target for a (youth) coach is learning the kids to be self responseble for their act and their learning process. You will see this in the way a coach is acting in the lessons, but also in the way heis acting in the way he should handle when kids behave badly or when they didn't show respect. I agree very much with this coach. I think realy that the learning proces of a volleybalteam, even a youth volleyballteam is their own proces. As a volleyball coach you're not one who stand above the group or above the proces, no you're one of the group. You are interacting with the members of the group and when they behave badly the group must solve this problem. By the way, this coach said something more. He also told us that the only way to get respect from your team is by showing that you're they volleyball expert. Bert

Hi Connie, I agree, I use the same method, every time they get the ball over the net they take a step back. I was wondering when the children between 7 and 10 years old play in competition (do they???), is it then allowed to p.e. serve from 1 meter rom the net or must they serve from the backline? Bert .... by the way, I agree more, when chidren get the ball over the net with a overhand serve, they like it a lot!