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Johnp2

Center End-Around

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Just wanted to follow up and let you guys know that I implemented this play. We had our first game today, and while my players played more sloppily than I've ever seen them, we still won.

We actually call the play, "Center Reverse" and "Center Fake Reverse". The player I mentioned in another post (who just turned seven and has never played) is our Center. He implemented it well. The fake-reverse seemed to work better than the reverse. We got about eight yards on the reverse, and about 20 on the fake reverse (which we ran immediately after the reverse).

Some things I need to do to fine tune it.

1. Currently, I have my QB step back once he hands off to the Center (as to not get in the way of the slot recevier taking the reverse. However, I'm going to have the QB run a go route after he hands off, this will just give the defense one more thing to look at on the field.

2. The reverse did not have much time to develop. In other words the Center only took about 3-4 steps before the slot was there. I'm going to split the slot out wider and instruct him not to start running until the Center gets the ball (as there is a 1-2 second delay from the snap until the Center gets the ball. This will give the Center a longer run before handing off, which will in turn compel the defense to shift in that direction.

This, along with the Center Flood Pass (which has worked like gangbusters for us) and our Center Draw gives me three strong plays to our Center. Thanks!

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Just wanted to follow up and let you guys know that I implemented this play. We had our first game today, and while my players played more sloppily than I've ever seen them, we still won.

We actually call the play, "Center Reverse" and "Center Fake Reverse". The player I mentioned in another post (who just turned seven and has never played) is our Center. He implemented it well. The fake-reverse seemed to work better than the reverse. We got about eight yards on the reverse, and about 20 on the fake reverse (which we ran immediately after the reverse).

This, along with the Center Flood Pass (which has worked like gangbusters for us) and our Center Draw gives me three strong plays to our Center. Thanks!

It would be great to try these plays with my little guys and give the center some chance to do some more than snapping the football and running short lanes, you think you could give me a little more info on the execution of these?. Are your hand offs done in front of the Qb or his back to the Los? Center hooks to take the football or does he steps back?.

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Somebody has captured this beautifully on a video somewhere on this site. Look for it or someone can repost.

Edit: I found it.

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On our league we can not do an end-around like this one. Ruling doesn’t allow in front of QB hand offs, only lateral or back to the LOS. I will try something like it in practice, but not really sure it will work because of timing and centers running path, he will have to do a hook or backward steps first.

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On our league we can not do an end-around like this one. Ruling doesn’t allow in front of QB hand offs, only lateral or back to the LOS. I will try something like it in practice, but not really sure it will work because of timing and centers running path, he will have to do a hook or backward steps first.

I'd be interested in seeing what your rulebook says. Technically that handoff is behind the los, although barely. It wouldn't take much adjustment to make your qb turn 90 degrees and handoff lateral to the los.

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On our league we can not do an end-around like this one. Ruling doesn’t allow in front of QB hand offs, only lateral or back to the LOS. I will try something like it in practice, but not really sure it will work because of timing and centers running path, he will have to do a hook or backward steps first.

I'd be interested in seeing what your rulebook says. Technically that handoff is behind the los, although barely. It wouldn't take much adjustment to make your qb turn 90 degrees and handoff lateral to the los.

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I'd be interested in seeing what your rulebook says. Technically that handoff is behind the los, although barely. It wouldn't take much adjustment to make your qb turn 90 degrees and handoff lateral to the los.

I am sorry but my rule book it’s not in English it’s in Spanish otherwise I would happily send it to you. Probably I didn’t explain my self properly.

It’s kind of an absurd rule and it doesn’t make much sense at first but after a while you begin to understand the reason for it and you get used to it, anyway QB can not do any hand off in front of him or the ball facing the LOS, he cannot just stretch his arm and give the ball, if he turns in 90 degrees he can not stretch his arm to the LOS, he has to hand off to one of his sides or completly turn his back to the LOS, in other words his chest has to be turned away from the LOS and ball turns with him, so by minimum he has to turn his body and ball 90 degrees away from the LOS.

Problem comes in plays like the one we have been talking about “the center end around” or figuring out running plays out of the shotgun formation which basically I don’t use much unless the are rushing the QB a lot.

I don’t know if it’s clear enough, maybe I could get a couple of simple diagrams to make it clear.

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It’s kind of an absurd rule and it doesn’t make much sense at first but after a while you begin to understand the reason for it and you get used to it

You probably won't find anyone here who agrees with or understands the reason for that rule in your league. A handoff is usually permitted anywhere behind the LOS whether or not the QB handoffs in front, to the side or behind. Let's say you used a shotgun snap and the QB was 7 yds away from the LOS, according to that rule, your QB still couldn't handoff facing the LOS. Correct?

Guess you could have the center spin around and come behind the QB to create the same result. You'd have to tell the center to be quick.

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Let's say you used a shotgun snap and the QB was 7 yds away from the LOS, according to that rule, your QB still couldn't handoff facing the LOS. Correct?

That’s right It can NOT be done that way. I don’t like it much either but it’s considered an obstruction or indirect blocking.

We do have a running play out of the shotgun but HB runs behind the QB hand gets the hand off, pitching and tossing is allowed so we use these to get the football to the Hb on the shotgun.

With this ruling the is league is by all means trying to avoid any type of contact between the players, that’s their main argument.

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yurirdgz, entiendo español. No estoy fluido, pero puedo leer bien.

I've seen playbooks that have this type of rule. They say something like, no handoffs beyond the los.. handoffs have to be backwards or lateral from the qb. forward handoffs are illegal.

My solution is much as I described above. Simply have the qb stick the ball parallel to the los and hold it there. That will qualify as a lateral handoff. The center only has to take a slightly deeper turn towards the backfield. It really isn't much different than the one you see in the video except the center will have to take an angle towards the backfield. I think this can work.

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I would suggest checking with the officials at the game before doing any of this. I've learned anytime I am going to run something that could possibly be viewed as "illegal" to walk the officials through what I'm going to do, explain how it is legal, and ensure I have their buy in during pre-game warm-ups. You would hate to run it, they officials get confused, and blow it dead. We had something like this happen, and the officials later admitted it was legal but because it looked "funny" to them they blew their whistle. It cost us a TD.

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I've seen playbooks that have this type of rule. They say something like, no handoffs beyond the los.. handoffs have to be backwards or lateral from the qb. forward handoffs are illegal.

My solution is much as I described above. Simply have the qb stick the ball parallel to the los and hold it there. That will qualify as a lateral handoff. The center only has to take a slightly deeper turn towards the backfield. It really isn't much different than the one you see in the video except the center will have to take an angle towards the backfield. I think this can work.

I have a practice game on Sunday and I will try the center-end around, but I will have to ask the center to make a little hook to take the ball behind the Qb or parallel to the LOS like Orange is suggesting.

Strange thing is that we are talking about NFL youth official rulebook, not for U.S. it’s for Latin America, I taught ruling would be the same all around the world but a few hours ago I downloaded the U.S. rulebook and compared both of them, It’s the same in every point except about the running game. The most relevant change is that the U.S rulebook doesn’t allow pitching and tossing and ours does, the second difference is precisely the one that deals with hand offs, the U.S books says every type of hand off is allowed, ours says that no hand off in front of Qb are allowed, this is also very vague since it doesn’t clarify if the hand off to the LOS his allowed or not.

I’m thinking that someone one mess it up pretty badly in rulebook transcription or “why rules apply differently from one part of the world to another if it’s the same rulebook?, or maybe this is an authorized changed approved by NFL, I don’t know what happened.

Orange if you are interested I leave you with a link to the NFL Spanish Rule book and you can find the running rules on page three.

Spanish NFL youth rulebook

Thanks to all you guys.

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I did a quick Internet search and I found that the rule stating no forward handoffs is not uncommon. For some reason different leagues use it. Still, in my mind the play can be executed almost exactly the same way we do it. Center snaps the ball. QB takes the snap and holds ball towards sideline, maybe slightly backwards from 90 degrees. The center will have to reach out and take it out of his hands. In this scenario the center just angles back slightly but otherwise it's the exact same play. Let me know how it works. If it works send us a video of it!

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Three games in the season and the center end around has not worked for us. Of course our center end around is different from the one described here since our ruling doesn’t allow hand offs towards the LOS, only side or back hand off.

I´m thinking of dropping this end around out of the playbook unless I teak it so it gives us some yardage. I don’t have it on video yet but I´ll leave you the diagramed play, probably the HB fake is wrong. What do you think?

center EA.pdf

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The way you have it drawn up I can see why it wouldn't work. The idea is that the handoff has to be super quick amd the center immediately has to take off. Having the center run around the qb gives the defense way too much tome to react and they will shut it down.

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I stand by my original idea. Center snaps the ball, Qb hold ball parallel or slightly back and center heads immediately towards the sideline. I made this quick video to show you what I mean. My 4 year old is holding the camera and my 8 year old daughter is playing center (she's not even a flag football player).

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The way you have it drawn up I can see why it wouldn't work. The idea is that the handoff has to be super quick amd the center immediately has to take off. Having the center run around the qb gives the defense way too much tome to react and they will shut it down.

You are absolutely right, the play takes too long to develop, but is the only way I thought of doing it according to our league ruling (no handoff towards the LOS). When this thread started I had my doubt it would work but it was worth the try.

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I stand by my original idea. Center snaps the ball, Qb hold ball parallel or slightly back and center heads immediately towards the sideline. I made this quick video to show you what I mean. My 4 year old is holding the camera and my 8 year old daughter is playing center (she's not even a flag football player).

Got it.

I apologize I initially didn’t understand it that way.

By the way, your 4 old girl could me a great Hollywood movie maker and your 8 old a great RB.

Thanks

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I have this new Flip video recorder. It's pretty easy to make a quick video and put it on Youtube. I was reading your post and was thinking if I could just show you, it would make sense. My two daughters were the only ones around but they did a good job. It's interesting how easy it was for my 8 year old to learn the play. We practiced it 3 times and did it in one take. Also, I was trying to use that tree in the background for a reference point so you could see how she goes slightly backwards.

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I have this new Flip video recorder. It's pretty easy to make a quick video and put it on Youtube. I was reading your post and was thinking if I could just show you, it would make sense. My two daughters were the only ones around but they did a good job. It's interesting how easy it was for my 8 year old to learn the play. We practiced it 3 times and did it in one take. Also, I was trying to use that tree in the background for a reference point so you could see how she goes slightly backwards.

Thanks again, your video example couldn’t be clearer than that.

I´ll practice the play and try it on our next game, I like it very much but I´m pretty sure it’s going to rise discussion, I initially see it as a legal play but I´m sure other coaches are not since the reason they installed that rule is to avoid any HB running in front of the Qb since it considered an indirect obstruction to the rusher.

I can argument a lot of things like the center is not actually crossing the Qb, and that the play is so fast that the rusher not even in dreams could get there, problem is that there are a few coaches that been around the league for so long that they influence or mandate league decisions.

But if it passes league eyes then I can think of another way from running from the shotgun. Thanks.

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It is a very easy play (and effective). In the event your C is not a fast player---consider the way I modified it (or even if he is fast).

Try these three plays in a row in your next game and tell us how you do:

1. Run the base "C End-Around" (just like in the video)

(Run a few more plays and then run #1 again)

2. Next, run the same play, but reverse it to a WR split out wide. NOTE: Make sure the WR does not start running for the reverse until the C had the ball.

3. Next, run the same play as #2, but this time FAKE the reverse. Make sure your C holds the ball out before the fake to really sell it.

If executed correctly--you are sure to get at least 10-15 yards on #2, #3, or (hopefully) both!

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What John suggested is pretty much exactly the way we would run plays in a series, and it has worked gangbusters for us. Make sure you practice the handoffs over and over in practice to ensure they do it right in the game. Start slowly and walk (literally walk) through the play in practice and make sure every kid knows what their job is and that they are doing it correctly. Emphasize the fakes , actually overemphasize them. Alot of the success of the misdirection plays comes from the "acting" of the kids. They have to really sell the play.

Good luck

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I stand by my original idea. Center snaps the ball, Qb hold ball parallel or slightly back and center heads immediately towards the sideline.

It´s a shame our league ruling is so conservative, I called out the modified center EA one time on each of the three last games and all 3 times it was called illegal by the refs, I didn’t want to make a big deal out on the field so I didn’t mind their calling, I´m taking video to league authorities on January and talk sense into them so I can freely use that handoff on further occasions.

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When the center hands the ball to the receiver, who goes in front - center or receiver?

Receiver comes behind center, so center is in front.

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