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Johnp2

To Go Select Or Not....

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This season there were an abundance of coaches in our league who were extremely cut-throat in their desire to win. By that that they played their strongest players the entire game and their lesser-skilled players were on the field maybe one or two series at the most.

To combat this, during the playoffs our league enforced that every player is on the field at least one series (they used a checklist to monitor). Frankly, I'm immune to it now, and I go in to each game expecting the opposing coach to do everything he can to simply "win".

This has now become such a problem that our league is starting a select league next season. There will still be the recreational/developmental league that we play in now, but for the coaches/parents that want to bypass "playing for the fun of it", they are going to have tryouts, draft, etc. for this league. This will be for the 6-7, 8-9, and 10-12 leagues.

It's for the coaches that want a league about one thing: winning football games. They will not have to substitute players, and there is a greater than zero chance some of their players will never see playing time. Football is pretty big here, and there are parents who are more than happy to watch their son ride the bench all season--as long as his team is winning. This is something I'll never understand, but I digress....

I'm not going to pursue this league, as to us it is still about keeping all players equally involved and developing athletes/team chemistry--not just winning. Out of my 12 players, I have maybe three that would see much playing time in the select league. I still think we could hang in this league, should we join. I'm going to request that the champions of the rec/developmental league get to play the champions of the select league.

I think it would be cool to see how a team; note that word....team plays against one of these group of select athletes. It would be a huge disadvantage, but lots of fun nonetheless for the rec league team.

With all of this...I'm curious as to how many of you play in a select league. AND, if you don't but were offered the opportunity to do so---would you try it out?. I can certainly see how it makes a coach's job MUCH easier. You just roll with your studs each game and pretty much coach to simply win the game and not worry about anything else.

My son just turned 10, so he has six more seasons in our 10-12 league. Of course, I should retain 99% of the players during this time, but I figure one of these seasons before it's all over and just take my top six and go with that. Simply so I can have one season where the gloves come off (something I've held back from doing for 10 seasons now).

It's an interesting topic either way. What are your thoughts?

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To combat this, during the playoffs our league enforced that every player is on the field at least one series (they used a checklist to monitor)
Being on the field for one series helps, but I still think requiring equal ball touches and equal playing time for all kids during a game is the way to bring parity in rec leagues. The key is having a league director who makes that a priority and consistently reminds coaches along with refs reminding coaches before and during the games. Pretty simple, but leagues never seem to do it.

Most rec leagues have a slogan like "every kid plays" along with a philosophy that promotes kids getting to play a lot and having fun. However, the backdrop is made up of scoreboards, standings, and playoffs. Think about it. You're asking a rec coach to have fun and make sure all his/her kids get equal ball touches and playing time, but not to worry about the score, standings or how they'll do in the playoffs? Uh, yeah. Throw in playing against the coaches who ignore the fun and equalness part and let the fun begin.

I get having some type of measurement to keep things competitive in rec leagues, but my experience has been that most coaches can't hang in those realms. It makes sense why they can't. Who wants to be at the bottom of the standings or get crushed 40-0? Saying, "I spread the ball touches around" just doesn't seem to satisfy as you're staring at your losing record.

If a rec league is going to allow scores, standings, and playoffs, they need to enforce the other side of equal ball touches and playing time. Only way I can see to keep a coach in check and bring some parity.

With all of this...I'm curious as to how many of you play in a select league. AND, if you don't but were offered the opportunity to do so---would you try it out?.
I don't play in a try out league, but if offered and we had enough kids, yes, I would do it. I've always been cool with competitive leagues (tryouts), but I'd only allow it for 10 and up. We're running into that in our competitive basketball league now and trust me, tryouts are a good thing.

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League started back around 7 o8 years ago as an NFL recreational league, the main goal started out to spread flag football around to different society sectors in a nation where flag & and football are not popular. As of now this purpose hasn’t been achieved & the league has become almost exclusively fas an offseason option for the tackle teams, so in other word it´s a Select league that that sells out as a recreational league.

Problem is that teams like myself that take the initiative to go into coaching and to spread flag around to our sons and friends most of the time get discourage since they really get badly beaten down in the field, I´m finding my way around but the majority of the venture’s don´t, so there more desertions than sport spreading going on.

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I'm not going to pursue this league, as to us it is still about keeping all players equally involved

It would be interesting for an experienced coach and team like yours to go a step further. Can´t you get involved in both leagues? Take your best 6 o 7 athletes to compete in the select league and your rookies and average guys in the rec league?

It´s thought to coach two teams which I´m doing, I think it would a good challenge for an experienced coach as yourself…..

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I am dealing iwth similar issues in my I9 league. It prmotes equal play, but instead of tryouts, you can select the coach you want to play for. What has happened for the last few seasons is that whole teams are brought back intact while all the new kids get put on a random team. Of course the team that has played together wins the vast majority of the games. I questioned why we don't have a ranking day for the kids to each team would be evenly matched. I was told that the league asks the returning parents each season if they prefer being able to pick the coach or have a ranking day, and that all the parents wanted to name their coach. I pointed out that this league seems to be full of intact teams, or first timers, so of course all the kids who are returning are the ones on the good teams, while the "new" kids play one season and quit since they got killed each game.

I like parity at this age and although playing with your friends is fun, you aren't learning much about sportsmanship by winning 50-0 each game, and certainly aren't learning anything by losing 50-0.

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It prmotes equal play, but instead of tryouts, you can select the coach you want to play for. Of course the team that has played together wins the vast majority of the games.
Guilty as charged. We've kept a core group together since 1st/2nd grade that played soccer, football, and basketball. It wasn't planned out, most of the parents were like-minded (not super competitive) and we all agreed on a general youth sports philosophy. Parents kept coming back season after season. I can honestly say, we didn't build a team of hotshots, we have a few athletic kids but several average and a few not so hotshot. You're correct about the wins though; we usually had decent seasons especially as the kids got older. I would argue that a lot of that came from the synergy of our team and not because we played our better players. I paid my dues early on taking kids with terrible attitudes and dealing with over zealous parents; it was refreshing to finally have a peaceful group and probably kept me coaching a lot longer.
I pointed out that this league seems to be full of intact teams, or first timers, so of course all the kids who are returning are the ones on the good teams, while the "new" kids play one season and quit since they got killed each game.
Another very valid point, that I've witnessed many times. I'm sure leagues lose kids all the time because of scenarios like this.

I think part of the problem stems from parents getting their kids in sports at younger ages these days. After you experience a few funky coaches, you learn quickly when you find a good one to hang on to them. Same with coaching, I did everything in my power to hang on to the parents and kids who shared my coaching philosophy. As the seasons progressed, we ran into more teams who had done something similar to us.

Possible solutions:

-leagues offering more practical training and tools to new coaches

-leagues offering a mentoring program for new coaches allowing them to shadow a more experienced coach

-hold a mandatory one hour clinic for all first time players

-league directors and refs emphasizing equal ball touches and play time

-leagues giving out awards for teams who share playing time, ball touches, and exhibit sportsmanship.

-league directors being present at some practices and games - encouraging players and coaches

Just like a company, what you emphasize and reward will usually be executed. If a league really wanted equal playing time and ball touches, they would do it. I think the reason most coaches and parents stick with one team is because most leagues don't do what I mentioned above. So, they take matters in their own hands and shape their own positive experiences.

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Rob, I appreciate your input as you are one of the more experienced coaches out there (this is my 3rd season). I certainly don't blame the coaches for wanting old players back on their team, it makes life easier. I have a few returning players on our team after a decent fall where we finished 2nd, and I certainly don't mind teaching new kids how to play. With our maximum one practice per week, its so hard to get a team of new kids ready for a season. We only get about 2-3 practices before the season begins so we start so far behind the intact teams. Overall the kids and I have a great time and I have been successful at improving their skills (with a huge amount of help from this board).

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Part of the i9 appeal for parents is only having to deal with a two hour time slot (practice + game) in one location, once per week. Convenient for the parents, not so practical for the coaches trying to get a team ready.

Best way I know to compete against teams that have been around season after season is to practice. I'd have a meeting with the parents and see who was willing to have a 2nd practice during the week. Find a local park and do it. We tell our parents the practice is not mandatory, we're just trying to get the kids ready so they have a more enjoyable experience once the season officially starts. Having two practices before the season starts gives you opportunities to fine tune your offensive plays, plus work on "what if" scenarios with your defense.

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I've had the same group of players for multiple seasons, but it was not intended--similar to Rob's situation. Much like his player's parents, my team's parents appreciate the fact we are not only about winning. Most of my players would see very little playing time on other teams.

In fact, I imagine if I took my chances on getting random players, I would probably field a better group of athletes than I have. As noted, it is a great advantage sticking together simply because you can do more complex things.

Through the years I've learned there are basically four types of teams:

1. Average athletes who have played with same team for multiple seasons. Very rare, in fact ours is the only team in our league with this type of team that I know of.

2. Skilled athletes who have played with same team for multiple seasons. I call these "stacked teams" and we have quite a few of them who openly admit to doing it. Essentially, the coach only keeps his best players and takes his chances on new players. In our league, we can specifically request NOT to bring back a player. The intent is to use this for kids with poor practice attendance, discipline problems, etc...but stacked teams use it to weed out lesser skill athletes. A few seasons of this and you have a group of talented players top to bottom.

3. Average athletes who have not played together for multiple seasons. Probably the most common in rec leagues.

4. Skilled athletes who have not played together for multiple seasons. This is when a coach lucks into getting six or seven really talented players at random.

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Best way I know to compete against teams that have been around season after season is to practice....find a local park and do it.

I agree with this. I think we had 8-10 practices before our first game this season. It might sound like a lot, but at one point I polled the parents to see if they wanted to scale back practice some and the answer was "no!" I have to really commend you coaches who are only given a limited amount of practice time (i.e. one hour per week right before the game). I don't see how you do it.

I would not be afraid to conduct "optional/bonus" practices. Years ago I remember our league closed all games (including practices) for two weeks when the Swine Flu was going around. I told my team's parents that my son and I would be at the practice field playing football and anyone who wanted to come on down and watch/join could. ;-) We had 100% participation.

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It is tough only getting one additonal practice a week and an hour before the games. Our league is very strict about only one practice per week, which is fine as we all have to abide by it. This is where having the stacked or returning team gives a big advantage. Lastly, I had to laugh last week when I held a practice and half the parents called and said it was too cold. You sign up your kid for WINTER football and its too cold? In Florida? Worst part is that we only have 8 kids on the team so when more than a few are out, we really can't simulate any real game experiences.

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It is tough only getting one additonal practice a week and an hour before the games.

At the beginning of the season (of football or basketball), we will sometimes have pizza at the coaches house. Perhaps toss the ball a bit. Or maybe we'll have 2-3 kids over for a play date. Jump on the trampoline (warm-up), toss the ball a bit. If it was too cold or wet, we would use the school gym (our teams are sorted by school) or a church gym to at least have walk-throughs.

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It is tough only getting one additonal practice a week and an hour before the games.

At the beginning of the season (of football or basketball), we will sometimes have pizza at the coaches house. Perhaps toss the ball a bit. Or maybe we'll have 2-3 kids over for a play date. Jump on the trampoline (warm-up), toss the ball a bit. If it was too cold or wet, we would use the school gym (our teams are sorted by school) or a church gym to at least have walk-throughs.

You nailed it here, George. To really get your teams parents into buying in to the importance of practice, you have to build relationships with them.

One tangible advantage of bringing back the same team is that you already know who is returning, so you can hold practice whenever you want (we practice year 'round).

You know the staff you are returning, so you can hit the ground running knowing which plays to continue perfecting, and which ones to introduce based on the kids' position strengths.

During the off-season, when say...my Center comes over, when it's time for the boys to "play football", we actually go through plays for the upcoming year for the Center and QB positions specific plays. Quite often we'll all meet up and simply have an intra-team scrimmage. Things to keep their heads in tune with football, and it builds great relationships with the players.

Continue to ensure each player is equally accountable, and after a few seasons you'll find parents who feel the same way, and who are dedicated. Having a group of dedicated players/parents will allow you the time to create a team that will compete, regardless of talent. I always devise my playbook so that talented players are merely a bonus in our system. Instead, focus on all the little things the non-focal point players on the play can do to make it successful. :-)

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