Jump to content
Y-coach.com - Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Coach Rob

What Would You Do?

Recommended Posts

Here's the deal. I have six 12 y/o's, two 11, one 13, and one 14 y/o on my fall team. Thought we'd be in the 12-14 y/o division where we've played for the past several seasons. We've had good competition and had to fight our way through every season. Turns out the league apparently didn't have enough players, so they expanded the division to 10-14 y/o's. Not only that, they only have 4 teams in this division, ours being one of them.

Today was the Jamboree Day where the parents meet the coaches, we have a one hour practice, and a scrimmage against another team. One of the 4 teams didn't have a coach, another team that we were supposed to scrimmage had a coach, but he wasn't there 30 minutes into the practice so they had a league person fill in. It was a pretty funky scene, to put it mildly.

From looking at the other teams, we're definitely the biggest, most experienced, and have the most depth. The other teams are smaller, so I'm guessing they have more 10 and 11 yr olds, but they don't look like JohnP's team.

I can tell my kids are bummed because of the lack of competition and not feeling challenged. The parents on the other team's are probably going to wonder what the heck is going on when they see the mismatch on the field. I have to deal with the balance of not telling my kids to "hold back", yet not running up the score. Not a pretty scene.

If you were in my shoes, would you call the league director? I'm pretty ticked that he moved the division from 12-14 to 10-14, just because he didn't have enough players. Man up and just admit you don't have enough, refund the money or tell me not to sign up a 13 and 14 y/o. Don't put 5th graders with 7th and 8th graders. Not sure what he can do for me at this point though.

Things I'm thinking of doing to make it more challenging. On defense, playing M2M, or letting the kids decide which D to play from a choice of a 2-3 or M2M on the fly each down. Allowing them to call who rushes, etc. Same on offense, I'm thinking of getting two wristbands and letting them call the plays. Switching QBs every two plays (rotating through every player) bringing one in from the sidelines. Tracking ball touches and telling the QB who needs ball touches.

I'm also thinking of calling the coach on the other team before we play and telling them the situation. Letting them know we didn't realize we were going to be playing in a 10-14 division, we've played together a long time and to make it challenging for our kids, we're allowing them to call their own defense and offense.

Sorry for the long post, I'm pretty frustrated. All comments are welcome.

On a side note, my 7th grade b-ball team won their two games Sat night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about asking the league to add a couple of players to your roster, and splitting your team in two? If the league can get enough players to form just one more team then you'd have 6, and it sure beats playing the same teams over and over. It would also give your older kids more competition playing each other than just pounding the younger kids each week.

I really can't believe they made a league with such disparity. The difference just from 5th to 6th grade is pretty big, I can't imagine putting 5th graders up against 7th and 8th graders.,,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How about asking the league to add a couple of players to your roster, and splitting your team in two? If the league can get enough players to form just one more team then you'd have 6, and it sure beats playing the same teams over and over. It would also give your older kids more competition playing each other than just pounding the younger kids each week.
My team will probably shrink down to 8 as two of the kids play basketball on Sunday's and their games will be in the afternoons when we play. Even if the league could sign up more players and we split my team up, I know the kids/parents going with the "other team" wouldn't be very happy. Especially if the coach didn't know what he was doing,etc.
I really can't believe they made a league with such disparity. The difference just from 5th to 6th grade is pretty big, I can't imagine putting 5th graders up against 7th and 8th graders.,,
I hear you, it ticks me off. Usually, there are at least a few other teams that are equal to or better than us. I have no problem creating a 12-14 division and if kids want to play up, that's their choice, but stretching the division from 10-14 without regard for playing ability is absurd. It's a money issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds to me like you need to find another league. 10-14 is too much of an age range. That's not fun for the 10-11 year olds and that's not fun for the older kids either. It looks like your league is dying and the guy is just trying to patch it together however he can.

League directors never like turning people away, especially when they are down in numbers, but to me the right thing to do would be to make it a 12U league. That would require you to turn away the two older kids and then maybe you could pick up some of the younger kids to take their place.

I know its hard. We began playing in the local YMCA league many years ago. But the Y was always changing the rules and catering to the inexperienced masses rather than a good, more serious team. Since we were a good, more serious team, I scouted the various leagues available. What I found was that in our area there were 4 choices and I-9 was the one to go with. I think you might be in I-9 so you might need to do some research and consider NFL flag, Y's or maybe even city leagues. Personally I'd even consider traveling a little for games to get into a better league. There might be an I-9 the next town over that is more well organized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It sounds to me like you need to find another league.
I checked into that today, found another NFL Flag League that starts next Sunday. We could easily join, the problem is we've already paid for the current league and the games are 40-50 minutes away. Not sure the parents would dig driving that far to play flag football every Sun. I'll keep searching for other leagues.

I'm probably stuck in this league and will have to play out the season. I confirmed with the league director today that the other teams are definitely not on our level.

If you were in my shoes:

1)How would you keep your kids challenged?

2)How would you deal with the opposing parents/coaches? Would you communicate with them ahead of time letting them know what happened?

3)I can't tell my kids to "chill out", they won't get it. I can't blow the other teams out of the water, they won't get it. How would you handle that?

In your opinion, does the league director have any responsibility in this situation or did I just roll the dice and come up short this time? Our team playing in this division seems like it will do more harm than good. It will not be fun for the other teams or our team. One of the core principles of this league is FUN. The other core principle is SAFETY. Allowing 5th graders to play with 7th and 8th graders isn't SAFE.

Do I have a leg to stand on if I ask for a refund and withdrawal from the league?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We ran into the same problem last year. The best solution is to find another league. It's not only good for your team's development and psyche, it's also good for your league. Having one grizzly bear and three cub teams is bound to lead to dispirited kids and parents, which is bound to hurt their re-enrollment --and ultimately-- their brand.

That said, I sympathize with the league directors. They're in a no-win situation when enrollment is marginal. In effect, should they cancel an entire season? Or should they put something out there that's less-than-ideal in order to have a season? Parents may actually split on the answer.

At a minimum, it sounds like communication could have been better. It's always a bad idea to make big changes without resetting expectations, especially where the "product" is concerned (i.e., the quality of the league). At the end of the day, the league director should have looped you into the situation and maybe (i) solicited your input, (ii) solicited your assistance in finding additional teams, (iii) given your parents an opportunity to mulligan since the product yall signed up for clearly changed, etc. He probably didn't for fear of your answer (which was bound to cost him $1,000).

All that said, based upon your description, it sounds like you're the only coach who brought a roster. It sounds like the other teams were (i) mostly "green," (ii) randomly developed, and (iii) coached by "dads stepping up to coach," not coaches. If that's the case, while it doesn't excuse the lack of communication, expanding the age brackets may not have been an obviously bad call (especially if your league is i9 sports, which doesn't emphasize competition, anyway). Your team is the "minority." It sounds like the rest of the teams will still be competitive with each other and still not take away from what i9 sports stands for -- sportsmanship, values, effort, etc.

To your questions:

1. We ultimately challenged the kids by moving to a competitive NFL league and playing up a division. Until then, we did things like let them manage the entire offense/defense with no coaches on the field. They called and broke huddles themselves, called their own defenses and plays, etc. It was an opportunity for them to see the game from a different perspective, and an opportunity for us to introduce them to accountability.

2. Communication is never a bad thing. Just be careful how you position the conversation, since the unavoidable truth of your position is the other teams are "not on your level." That could come across as arrogant and leave a bad taste, especially after you pick their QB three times and beat them 54-6 the first time your teams play one another.

3. Same comment as #1, but maybe with some restrictions on the amount of times they can call a certain play. I have a hard time telling my kids to pump the brakes, or intentionally run out of bounds to avoid scoring, etc. But I don't mind limiting the high percentage stuff, limiting the easy checks, forcing them to practice new plays, forcing kids to learn assignments at new positions, etc. This season can still be a great opportunity to get better.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I cannot provide advice on what it's like to have a team that you know will have a cake walk, I CAN tell you that I have no problem whatsoever losing to a team of thoroughbreds, especially when they exhume class (which I know your team does). I'm confident that most teams will look at your team with great respect and think about how that is what they aspire to become. That is how we look at great teams, at least.

For my thoughts on your questions:

1)How would you keep your kids challenged?

I would not be afraid to hold them back. Keep them competing with themselves. I see nothing wrong with constructing a few extremely challenging assignments, and then see how they can execute it during a game. Obviously not saying to put a beat down on teams, but have fun with coming up with some things that are simply impressive and everyone (both sides) would appreciate you can execute a few times each game (the players only get x number of times to try it). Or, you could essentially play to your players' weaknesses. Put your least skilled-player at QB, put your slowest player at RB, your worst defender at Safety, etc.

2)How would you deal with the opposing parents/coaches? Would you communicate with them ahead of time letting them know what happened?

Nah, I would think people are just going to say to themselves, "Look at that team!" But I doubt anyone would call 'unfair!'.

3)I can't tell my kids to "chill out", they won't get it. I can't blow the other teams out of the water, they won't get it. How would you handle that?

I'd see this as a golden opporunity to continue driving home how to win with class. Work with your kids to understand the talent your team has, and more importantly appreciate the effort other teams are giving. Who knows...a team or two might give you everything you want, and it could possibly be inspiring for your players to see.

At this point, it seems that it simply "is what it is". In our final game last season, we lost to a team that went three consecutive undefeated seasons. Their coach and all of their players were class acts--and frankly I was proud to be on the field competing with them. I imagine if there is a lot of parity with the other teams, most coaches and teams will be very excited to play you guys, and circle that date on their calendar.

I'm sure it will all work out and you'll have a great season, Rob. As you know--the season is what you make it. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not put all kids into a draft so that relatively equal teams can be formed? Our rec league redrafts every year, so there are no dynasties formed. It's harder on the coaches, but probably better for the kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How about asking the league to add a couple of players to your roster, and splitting your team in two? If the league can get enough players to form just one more team then you'd have 6, and it sure beats playing the same teams over and over. It would also give your older kids more competition playing each other than just pounding the younger kids each week.
My team will probably shrink down to 8 as two of the kids play basketball on Sunday's and their games will be in the afternoons when we play. Even if the league could sign up more players and we split my team up, I know the kids/parents going with the "other team" wouldn't be very happy. Especially if the coach didn't know what he was doing,etc.

Actually I was thinking you would coach both teams Rob. That way your kids could still all practice together with you as their coach, but they would just play together as 2 seperate teams on game days. When they played each other you could have them call their own plays and just help out or something.

I've seen coaches do similar in our league before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is how I'd play.

Run your best team and get a lead. 21 points, whatever. Then tell the kids that they are in charge. Make them draw up plays in the dirt or the palm of their hand. Just like the street corner football we used to play. Rotate the QBs but other than that, stay out of the way, let them do their thing.

I did this once when we were up by a bunch. My only regret I had was that I didn't tell the kids to not throw a bomb. I should have known better. On the second play they called a bomb and of course it worked. Tell them the caveat is that they have to keep the passes under 10 yards. Make them work it down the field.

On defense go with big cushions, like 10 yards. That will allow the other team to complete short passes.

I agree with you, do not allow your kids to give anything but 100%. Not only is that a bad habit for them, it's humiliating for the other team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not put all kids into a draft so that relatively equal teams can be formed? Our rec league redrafts every year, so there are no dynasties formed. It's harder on the coaches, but probably better for the kids.

There are rec teams here that do have drafts, and we even looked into having one. There are pros and cons to it. In fact--it was because of MY team that we considered doing it, but not for reasons you would think. I'll try to be succinct. ;-)

I've had 99% of the same players since Kindergarten. We've played 10+ seasons together...and I assure you they are not "athletes". I simply stuck with what I had each season as team chemistry is the most important thing for me.

When my players were in 2nd/3rd grade, they won their first championship. The next season, they were primed to win it again. Again, not group of athletes, but a crisp group who simply know how to play as a team. That season, a team walked on AFTER registration ended. It was a team that fielded on SEVEN players (we were 7v7 then) and were a select football team that wanted to play flag during the off-season. They even brought in their own uniforms. They were bigger/faster/older than all teams. Of course they literally wiped the floor with everyone, and we ourselves went something like 9-1 and met them in the championship. To a man, there was not even a point in playing that game. We played them tougher than any opponent had that season, but it was still pretty lop-sided.

The thing that rattled everyone is this was a walk-on select team, who brought only their top seven players...instead of home-grown players like all other teams (including mine). In other words, the best "normal" team did not win the championship (although we won it again the next season)...but it spoiled our three-peat ;-)

I took it like a man, but our commish was pretty much in dismay, and called a meeting with me to discuss how to prevent it. He offered doing a draft...but in my mind that would have gone against everything that I had built...which is taking a group of normal kid athletes, and turning them into a pretty salty team. I could ONLY do that by ensuring I kept the same class group of players/parents who are dedicated to fostering a true team environment. We ended up agreeing NEW teams could not bring in more than eight players. This has since changed (as we have a new commish). I think as long you have a team of league-bred players, those whom you've been able to turn into good athletes and field a crisp team other teams/parents just need to accept that.

---BONUS THOUGHTS--- ;-)

I do see the need to try and prevent dynasties from occuring. One popular thing in our league is to stack teams. By that, coaches will either ONLY invite back their best players and take chances on new ones (do it a few seasons and you have a good team)...or they form alliances where they take their top five or six players and field a team. In fact, this season I know of THREE coaches teaming up to do this (taking their top-level talent from three teams and forming a single team). Not saying that is wrong, as I imagine coaches who have yet to win a championship go into panic mode a bit as their kids get older...but I would not want to win that way...it's too easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent points all around, much appreciated. I know that calmer heads prevail, but I'm still ticked that the league director didn't pull me aside as whiskey.alpha mentioned. I've been with this guy for a long time, brought in thousands of dollars over the years, helped him out of a coaching jam last year, volunteered several times to help with new coaches, etc. At the very least we could've discussed options before the schedules were published. It is what it is at this point.

We've never had an easy go of it in this league, however, Orange is correct, it's going downhill, especially for our age division. I contacted a league that is more competitive, so that will definitely be an option in the spring.

Texas - I like your idea of coaching two teams. Might offer that if one of the other teams still doesn't have a coach.

The Flush - the draft system would definitely bring parity to the league, problem is, they don't have the coaches. So, your kid could end up with a funky coach, have a bad experience and decide not to play again. I think a draft system works, only if the league has their stuff together, especially with the coaching side.

It appears that allowing the kids to call their own plays is the way to go. Point well taken whisky.alpha on communicating with the other teams. Guess I didn't want to take the field and have the parents on the other team think we were a bunch of jerks. Still think I'm going to talk with the other coaches before each game and explain the situation.

On a side note, I have 4 new players on my team, one is 11 and played a season of flag, the other three are 12 and have never played flag football. I still have a core group of 5 who've played with me for some time now, but we don't have a team of superstars.

Again, thanks for all the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Youth sports can be kind of funny. Football is king when it comes to high school in our small town of < 5000 people. But at the youth level, we can't find enough coaches for our 4 team 3rd-4th grade flag league, yet we have more than enough volunteers for the 8 team baseball league for the same age group. Maybe it's because football is more difficult to coach than baseball because the type of teamwork is different. We only have flag football available through 4th grade and then the kids play tackle football, soccer, or fall travel baseball or nothing. This year we only have about 6 4th graders and the rest of the league is 3rd graders. With the drop in average age, we also lost the experienced coaches. I've always been willing to be one of the assistant cat herders, but have no desire to be the head coach. This year I went from being a parent, to an assistant coach on another team, to head coach of my own team in the course of 2 days just because nobody else would do it and I did not want the league to only have 3 teams instead of 4. We now have 3 new coaches this year.

Our league has a 4-5 day football camp/tryout where all the coaches run the players through drills and evaluate the players before holding a draft. The coaches get together and designate the better players as QBs so that each team gets at least one player capable of playing QB. The teams are drafted relatively equally since all the coaches get to evaluate all the players for 5 days. My son was one of the designated QBs and then I drafted the best available players who for the most part my son was already friends with and ended up with a pretty decent team. Usually the dad's of the best players get together as coaches to sort of stack their teams, but due to lack of experienced/willing coaches, that did not happen this year. 2 of the teams, including mine did not have assistant coaches before the draft. I got lucky to get a couple other dads to be part time assistants to help out, including an experienced coach whose son decided not to play tackle and came back to flag after the draft was over. He told the league that he would help coach and that he knew me better than the other coach without an assistant, so I got his son, who happens to be the best athlete in the age group, without going through the draft. Some people think we stacked our team, but other than the one kid, it was all done through the draft. If I wasn't comitted to giving all the kids chances to handle the ball, we could score a whole lot with the kids we ended up with. I just feel good that our least talented kid scored a TD in the first game of the year, even though some of the better kids have not scored yet.

All of our local youth leagues have made the decisions to be rec leagues that play for the fun of it instead of truly competitive leagues. All the local youth leagues therefore redraft teams every year. Some people don't like this and take their more talented kids to other towns to play more competitive sports or play in travel leagues. Others like the rec league because it gives the younger or lesser talented kids an easier entry into a sport. To each his own. In my case, my son is probably one of the above average kids who could hold his own in any league. I sometimes wish our league were more competitive (fewer clueless kids), but we chose to play in our town becuase we don't want to travel and all his friends play here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Follow-up. Called the league director last week and told him I wished he'd discussed this before stretching the division to a 10-14 range. At least we could've warned the parents and maybe worked out some options before making up the schedules.

He asked if I'd be willing to split up my team which wasn't a problem with me, I told him the challenge would be selling it to the parents. As predicted, the parents weren't real keen on switching kids to other teams simply b/c they view this as a chance to hang out. They could care less about the score or who wins.

I then called the mom of our girl QB giving her the option to bail with her money back, figuring she might get bored in this league. That was a no go. Mom was content to allow her to continue playing, same reason stated above. I'm glad she decided not to bail, she's a great kid and I've enjoyed having her on our teams.

So, we march forward. The team we played today was pretty good for not playing together for very long. They had some quick kids and as the game progressed, their play improved. I think they will make big strides as the season moves along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Rob, Coach Andy here from the Mustangs... saw this post today and wanted to thank you for the kind words.

I did not realize the league was supposed to be 12-14 year-olds, and that the director changed it up to fill out teams, that explains a lot.

We have gotten better over the season, but we are 0-6 and playing the Cobra's Sunday. Good thing is, we played them last Sunday, so we know what to expect, and I hope to focus on their weaknesses and get a win this season. We are in a building year, hopefully most of the kids come back next year so we can pull it all together and do even better next season.

My kids have all made progress this season. I have worked hard to get them all a chance to touch the ball, but missed catches, and slow running has killed us all season. We have given up too many points to interceptions. Our defense is much better, and I love that the kids have really understood what we are telling them when on defense.

Good luck Sunday!

Andy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...