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Fourth Grade Girls Offense

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Can someone help me out? I coach my daughters 4th grade YMCA basketball team. I have done a pretty good job of teaching them mechanics and defensive strategy, but I think I am clueless when it comes to the offense. Our games consist of our point guard dribbling until she either drives to an open shot or getting trapped and then looking to pass. I have tried to work on a couple of set plays and tried to show them how to set screens but they just aren't getting it. I realize that we need to pass more and rely on dribbling less, but I don't know how to set it up.

Can someone give me an idea of a VERY simple offense that won't confuse the girls?

Anything would be helpful at this point.

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I coach 3rd and 4th grade girls in a church league so maybe I can offer a little help.

Here is the offense my girls ran last year. It's not complicated and but will usually get you a few open shots during the game. And at this age, at least in our league, it doesn't take too many points to win.

Have your PG bring the ball up the court until she's just outside the 3pt line.(in our league you can't play defense until the offense brings the ball past an imaginary line at the 3 pt going all the way across the court.)

Have a wing player on each side. I have them start outside the arch so they will keep good spacing.

I have two post players stacked at the bottom right side of the lane.

The Top PP moves to the bottom of the circle while the other simply crosses over to the other side of the lane.

If the defender drops back to cover the post player my PG simply dribbles in a couple of steps and shoots. Otherwise, the PG passes to the post player in the middle.

In our league the girls tend to gravitate to the ball so the PP will usually have somebody wide open. In most cases it's the PG. Whoever she passes to takes the open shot and everybody crashes for the rebound.

If no one leaves their position the PP is to turn and shoot and again, everybody crash the board.

Another play we discovered by accident last year was fake 3 pt play. My daughter was goofing off before one practice and hit a 3 pt shot. She came running over to me to tell me and I told her to try it again. She went on to hit 4 out of 6 from 3 pt land. She was in the third grade last year. Anyway, I told her I would let her try it in a game since she did so well. In the game she threw up an airball. Of course :D Well I had one of the PP set up right underneath the goal, the other PP would swing over to the side about four feet from the lane. My daughter would throw up the three and would air ball it and it would come straight to the PP underneath. She would immediately pass it to the other PP and she would nail the shot.

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Coach -

If your oppentent plays m2m, just concentrate on the pick-n-roll, or feed the high post and run cutters toward the basket and just hand off to them. If they are running a zone concentrate on good spacing on the outside for an open shot and look to feed the post players.

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the last 2 years, i've coached 3rd/4th grade co-ed.if you have got a ball handler you are in good shape. this is a good 2 option play.start out with 2 players on the low block. one forward on opposite side((rebounder). your best shooter comes off of the low pick to corner for the pass and if the pick is executed correctly a wide open jump shot will occur. do not send your shooter to far out for a far shot. if the defense learns to pick up on the shooter and cheats the screen dump it in the low post. bang bang play should work . man 2 man or 2-3 zone.the players have got to want to pick and also a good sharp pass and learn how to catch the pass away from your body.(catch sqoare and shoot!!!) let me know how it works. good luck

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You probably won't like my answer, but I've had my current group of 7th grade girls for several years now and they've become very good. Along the way I've learned some valuable lessons, and this season made some observations that were not clear to me before we became a very good team.

1. Teaching patterned offense & set plays is a waste of valuable time with kids that young. Your goal should be to teach fundamental basketball skills. Why spend 10-20 minutes of super valuable practice time working on a confusing play they rarely execute correctly, and that only accounts for maybe 15% of your scoring if you're lucky? If they only run it correctly once in a while, how long before they decide they suck? Do you want them to think they suck?

2. Your scoring (1st grade through Jr High) will come almost exclusively from offensive rebounds, lay-ups from steals & turn overs, and other "garbage." Toss in the occasional made shot from a pass and that's probably 75% to 85% of your scoring.

3. Teams have trouble scoring because kids can't shoot. It's that simple. No kind of offense will lead to higher scoring if kids can't shoot the ball. Kids need to shoot, shoot, shoot in practice, then shoot some more. Then is you can work it in, they should do more shooting.

When we started with this group, we were a mediocre team. We would miss at least 10 lay-ups every game, and another 8-10 shots inside 8 feet. Our record was 11-9 two years ago. We fell to 9-11 last season. Even when we did win, it was always a battle to the finish. We never got an easy win, and very good teams blew us out back then. It was agonizing to watch us miss shot after shot.

This season we are 7-1 at this point. I know our competition well, and we may not lose again until we get to tournament. Nobody runs us out of the gym anymore. Only one of our wins was a close game, and the other six have been rather easy. This has been accomplished with the same group of players, playing against the same School opponents as the last 2 seasons. How'd we do it? Well, the girls did it, but I did implement a few subtle changes.

First of all, we had real good participation in our off season "open gym" program this past off season. As I'm sure you must know- the off season is for getting better. We go 3 hours on saturday starting about one month after the season is over and running right up to the following season. We usually split the 3 hours half between drills and half free play. Once School begins in the fall, we also run a 1.5 hour "open gym" session on Monday evenings and just let them play games.

I gave up entirely on any kind of set offense involving patterns, with one exception- We have one "quick hitter" that we practice and run against non-agressive zones. We've tinkered with it and have developed several options so we can run it repeatedly without it looking the same every time.

Instead, we teach basic motion and screening, we teach screen & roll, we teach give & go. We teach attacking zones by passing to distort the non agressive zone, and dribbling into gaps to beat aggressive zones. we emphasize good spacing, and passing to the open team mate even if they are further from the basket.

Most of all- we make sure to get in some shooting practice (including lay-ups) every practice session, and we always make the drills competetive while making sure they don't rush their shots just because it's a contest.

My personal favorites are the "Mikan" drills- I make it competetive by putting 3 kids at each basket, and each kid goes for 1 minute. The most made baskets wins. I can get all 15 of my players through this in just over 3 minutes using five baskets. The current team record is 31 made shots in 1 minute. Not bad for a 12 year old girl.

Our other favorite shooting drill is done with the players still in groups at the same baskets as in the "Mikan" drill. We call this "3 spots." The goal is for one group to win by making 15 shots. In this drill each player takes 3 shots from 3 designated spots, then it's the next players turn. It just keeps cycling around until one group reaches 15. They have to count out loud, and loudly. We might do this "game" three times, with each "game" being progressively further from the basket. The 1st time through, the shots are always from one low block lane line, from 1/2 way to the free throw line, and fron the other low block lane line. I like to work in a bank shot too. You can lower the made shot goal as needed so the drill doesn't take too long.

Now that some of my girls are strong enough to shoot three's, we try to get them three practice every day too. This isn't always easy because I don't make kids shoot three's who aren't strong enough yet. So I either have to divide them out during practice, or keep them a few minutes longer at the end of practice.

The thing about lay-ups is once the kids have the footwork and coordination down pretty well, you have to get them to go full speed. Otherwise they will make most to them in practice, and miss them in games. I've found it's also crucial to get them to not shy away from contact on their way to the basket. This is more difficult with most girls. But the fact is that moving away from contact (& away from the basket) almost ensures a missed shot, and no chance at ending up at the free throw line. I use a small football blocking pad (about $30.) to bump & push the kids with in drills. The pad better simulates going up against a small light body, and I coach girls, so this keeps me hands off.

To get the kids going full speed, I run drills where the lay-up is contested. For example- Two line at 1/2 court, one line dribbles from 1/2 court for lay-ups and the other line chases from a little behind. In this drill I match the kids up with others of similar/equal size and ability. Don't let them cheat by leaving early, make sure the kid with the ball has a head start.

This year I watch most of our opponents miss shot after horrible shot attempt, and that's really why we win. Our constantly pressuring defense leads to many more shot attempts than any set patterned offense ever could. But we still have to make the shots. I'll have these kids one more season before they get to High School, and I may put in a little more set offense next year because they are better prepared for it. But this much I do know- no offense will help scoring if players can't shoot, and it's pretty rare to find a 3rd or 4th grader who can shoot with any consistency. When they get to High School, their coach will implement them into his offense, and he will be greatful to me for preparing them to be successful in his scheme.

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Great Reply Coach7!

I agree, plays are a waiste of time with young players.

I would much rather them learn how to think on thier feet.

That stops them from getting confused or locked in on a play that may or may not work in their particular situation.

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Well i find that plays are to complicated for the group of children i coach. The best thing to do is just run a set up such as 1-2-2 or 1-3-1. and then work on recognizing when to call picks and sorts.

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I'm coaching 9-10 year old girls this year which is about the equivalent of 4th grade girls. One thing I had to show them before we could get any kind of half court game going was how to "turn and face" upon catching a pass. They will never be able to find an open man or deliver a good pass until they can do this.

I teach this by having a player catch a pass on the wing. Their back or side is usually to the goal because they're generally coming back to the ball to receive the pass. Have them catch the pass with their feet shoulder length apart for balance, and then pivot into a position where they are facing the rest of the offense. Have them hold the ball high when doing this, or on their back hip (away from the defender. They can keep the defender off of them by pivoting into the defender while quickly swinging the ball over their head on the way to the other hip (which becomes the back hip after the pivot.

I also have a few other players criss crossing in different directions with a defensive player on them and make the passer pivot and keep the ball away from the defense until someone comes open.

No 9-10 year old team plays perfect defense therefore if your players can turn and face, you give yourself a chance to find open people. It's something that comes naturally to most of us who have played basketball in the past and sometimes you don't think about teaching this but it makes a big difference.

My team scored 12 pts in their first 2 games and "exploded" ha, for 40 pts in their last 2 since we've practiced how to turn and face. Try it.

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I totally agree with Coach7's comments and found myself in the same situation.

I also coach 7th grade girls and the last few years we have typically felt good to finish 500. We had two girls who accounted for 90% of our points (if someone else got a bucket it was a pleasant suprise).

Over the summer we did NOTHING but work on fundamentals. Mainly shooting but also defense and rebounding. This year we are 16-0 and all of the girls can score. Obviously you still have your stronger players but when you reach the point that all of your players can put the ball in it makes a big difference.

We do run a very simple rotation offense but don't spend a lot of time on it.

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Coach7 couldn't have said it better. My husband and I coach my daughter's 3rd grade girls Y team and we played a team yesterday that by appearances should have really been tough for us. The team towered over our girls by several inches and I mean every player on that team. They were running a simple pick and roll play at the top of the key all day long and it was never executed correctly. The girls despite their height and obvious strength did not shoot well at all. Our girls dominated on every aspect of the game and we don't even attempt to teach a play because not everyone on the team has the same skill level. I do see where it could be beneficial in teaching the girls to spread out and get out of that habit of crowding the ball but at this age group, especially if you have girls that play soccer, they will gravitate to the ball no matter what. We do have the same problem as the original poster in that our point guard usually dribbles and shoots and does so quite effectively, however it has been a great challenge to get her to pass the ball and I would love to hear some feedback on how 1) We can get the rest of the girls to move around and be able to receive a pass (as they like to think they are still on defense and end up arm wrestling with the other team) 2) How we can get the point guard to read her teammates and get passes off quicker (she hesistates way to long and what open pass was there quickly fades). We practice this often and we know she is capable of it yet in a game it's like she is in her own world.

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What would be wrong with running a basic motion offense? I agree that most kids 4th through 7th grade can't shoot and you have to follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) offensively and defensively. However, with a motion offense, you can create easy basket opportunites under the net. Kids this age can convert layups fairly well and most teams play zone defense which forces you to rely too much on low percentage outside shots (typically baseline shots).

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Maybe I should clarify what I mean by motion offense- because we do believe in and teach "basic motion." There is an excellent site on the web, by far the best I've found on motion offense. Someone put a lot of work into this-

http://www.hoopsclub.com/playbook.htm

Here is a quote that says it best, "A true motion offense is one of the most potent half court attacks in basketball. It is not a "set" offense to be diagrammed on a blackboard, but a series of rules that govern play on the floor. Motion offense is a great teacher of basketball fundamentals. Because of its lack of structure, it requires that players know how to pass, cut, screen, read the defense, and move both with and without the ball. Players who learn how to execute a motion offense learn how to think for themselves on the floor- instead of having a paterned offense do the thinking for them."

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Coach7,

Thanks for providing a link to that site. Overall, there are a lot of useful bits on that site. However, one thing I tend to disagee with on some of the plays is not having a guard at the high point area at all times. I feel that you always need to keep someone prepared to defend against a cherry picker or fast break if the ball is turned over. I prefer a simple motion offense and when the point guard drives, I prefer having the off guard rotate over to the high point area. Part of my reason for doing this is we are not a very fast team and we have problems getting back on defense due to our lack of foot speed. I wonder if I am stunting our offense unnecessarily, but I am a big believer being strong defensively first and cutting down the other team's easy scoring opportunities. Most of the scoring in our league is done down low (layups) off of turnovers and rebounds.

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I agree Joe- you have to have someone to defend against them running out, or sneaking out on you. I would bet that the author of that web site would agree too. I mean, that's just basic basketball, right?

I have another reason for having someone up top all the time, and maybe you'd agree also- I never want my players to force a bad shot. I teach them that they always have an outlet up on top where they can get rid of the ball. I want my point guard to move across the top so that she is always in a position that is in a direct line from the ball up on top. That "direct line from the ball" is difficult to deny the pass to because it's hard for the defender to be in the passing lane and be able to see man & ball at the same time. Like you, if my point guard is the one who drove, then it becomes my other guards responsibility. This has worked well for us in that it allows us to re-set instead of play just turning into confusion.

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The league we play in requires teams to play man to man defense. We've considered adding simple plays to our offense including the the pick and roll etc., the challenge with this is that the way the other teams play defense and the way that even our own girls approach offense would make this incredibly difficult. By this I mean, that defensively the other teams are literally glued to us, they are in their face, bear hugging them, choking them over the shoulders etc. It's actually quite painful to watch because it is just so bad. On offense our girls crowd the ball, chase the ball handler around and hang over them screaming for the ball and at the same time dragging their defender into the mix, making it impossible to pass the ball. There is also a rule about "double-teaming" outside of the lane that is rarely followed, meaning that even though they have a person to defend they gravitate to the ball and essentially gang up on that one person. Offensively our girls forget that they don't need to care what the defender is doing, they do it well in practice but come game time they forget everything and go back to arm wrestling the defender for position rather than "move around" to get open for a pass. They crowd the ball which allows the defense to create stress on who ever has the ball and as a result a " good pass" is rare! We've been teaching them to "clear out" when ever their teammate is headed towards the basket or when ever they start to bunch up and then teach how to get position over the defender to get the rebound, but again in the game all that was taught and practiced is out the window.

That's our offensive struggle, our girls are spectacular on defense and are praised by other coaches and parents. I guess we need to find out how to get it across that offense and defense are two different games so that we can consider running plays.

Truthfully, how reasonable is it to expect 3rd & 4th grade girls to execute plays? People have said they do and it works but I just don't by it. By the way we are 5-0 and have beat our opponents by an average of over 10 points per game so I have to believe that there is more to be said for the focus on the fundamentals over plays. We've wated other teams fail miserably with silly plays and I just don't see the point. Of our 9 players, 4 had never played the game before this season, 4 played with us in the fall for the first time and our daughter is in her 2nd year of organzied play. With the exception of a couple of players our girls have learned a lot and while they do not perfectly execute each skill in the game situation, after all they are only 8 years old. I do have to say that it is pure joy to see them do something in a game that we've learned in practice, it's better than any W on the score books!

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Mavericks,

I had to laugh while reading your post because it reminds me so much of my own team. My girls do the same thing. Everything they practice goes out the window come game time. Like your team, they play incredible defense and that is the reason we are unbeaten also.

The majority of our points come off of steals turned into layups. If you call running to the lower block, stopping and banking off the glass a layup. We would score a lot more points too if our girls would do that everytime. Half the time they just throw it up right after they pass the free throw line. I noticed the other day in a game one one steal the girl actually looked up and passed it ahead to another girl. Now that made me proud.

We are allowed to play a zone in our league, which is what most of the other teams do. I have had most of these girls for three years now so they do better at keeping their spacing more than what you have described. Some of my new girls however have not figured it out yet.

Good luck to you the rest of the way. What a blessing it is to coach these young girls.

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I was reading back over some of my posts and noticed on this topic I had made a typing error when I was referring to my team as 5-0.. we were actually 5-1 at the time! My apologies for this error! At any rate I wanted to share that we had tried to introduce a play at practice this week in preparation for our tournament. After severall attempts they were able to run it... without anyone playing defense on them that is, we are not going to bank on it as our winning ticket for the tournament but we are going to have them try to run it a couple of times in the tournament to see how they do. I'd be proud just to see them get set up to run it. It was really funny when we started scrimmaging at the end of practice, you would have never known what we just practiced! I still believe our focus on the fundamentals has been incredibly beneficial for them.

I'll be back to share how they did!

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