Getting Started

[St_TJanet 0]

Hi All,

Our volleyball season is just getting underway. I will be coaching 6th grade girls who have only had volleyball in P.E. (I haven't played in 25 years). I've read the past posts and have pretty much decided that basic drills are going to be the way to go for us. No fancy game plans, just straight passing. (However, I am completely open to any suggestions or information you can provide for a better strategy.) I only have 6 girls in the 6th grade, so I will also be pulling up 5th grade girls to play with us. I'll be working with their coach and practicing together.

I thought I would introduce myself and let you all know that I will be checking in regularly for all of your sage advice!

Janet

[fmfjohn 0]

ST_TJanet,

Welcome to the wonderful world of volleyball coaching. Don't let 25 years away get in the way, its the heart that counts!

Just a few suggestions: If you have the option, use a ball like Tachikara's Volley Lite. Because it is lighter, your players will not only enjoy practicing with it more (doesn't hurt to bump) but they will also be more successful at passing and serving. Also, since USAV rules allow it, set your net at 7ft. (for 11/12's - 6'6" for 10 and under) Success starting out will keep them playing for years.

I agree that you want to use "simple" drills, but I would recommend that you use as many game-like drills as you can. That pretty much comes down to any bump-set-hit combinations that start with a serve (or simulated serve). I think you will find it easier in the long run if you let the kids run the drills (player centered) and you watch and coach, as opposed to coach centered where you are more involved "running" the drills than coaching.

I routinely see a couple of technique problems that are best taught correctly at your level, and that is a "praying stroke" to position the arms for bumping, and a "hitting arm only" attempt at overhand hitting. The first can be prevented by training the players to take their arms directly out to the platform position - as opposed to "praying" or swinging the arms up from between the knees. The second requires that they "point" with their non-hitting hand, which moves their hitting hand and shoulder back to a better hitting position.

One other thing, teach them to overhead pass as soon as possible (I'd say even before bumping) and then have them use that technique as often as possible. It may slow down practice at first, but it will make them much better in the long run.

Sorry for being so long winded, but after 45 years of playing and coaching, coaching juniors has become my biggest interest.

Good luck! john

[St_TJanet 0]

John,

Not long winded at all!! Thank you so much for your experienced advice. I really need it. I'm very excited to be coaching and want to do the best I can. I know what and how I teach the girls will carry them through their playing years, so I want to teach them correctly the first time. I already know of a couple of girls that have the "praying" habit and this really makes them swing for the rafters.

Clarify for me....overhead passing isn't just setting, correct? You can also use a one handed pass, but is it with open or closed fist? Can it be done from the back positions? Is it legal to use the hands clasp together overhead?

Thanks again.

Janet

[fmfjohn 0]

St_TJanet,

I "thought" I posted a reply the first week of Dec., guess I goofed it up somehow.

Some "pureists" would tell you that setting isn't overhead passing at all, but why be so picky? You're right, you can overhead pass with one hand, and it could be opened or closed. But I would not want players to fist many balls over unless they were a frontline player, had their back to the net, and were simply trying to help the ball get over the net and into their opponent's court. Otherwise, I would suggest that you train them to pass/dink the ball over with their fingers rather firmly formed into a cup shape and use that to direct the ball to a specific spot if possible. I would also try to get them to jump with this type of pass.

As far as overhead passing from the back row is concerned, it wasn't to long ago that ref's would only let you return serve with a bump pass, even thought the Rules never required it. But now you can pass serve or any other ball that way, and as I mentioned, I am a real believer in getting players to pass as many balls as possible that way. You will find that many beginners - an some not so beginners - do not like to pass a low hard ball coming to them using their hands. For some, their hands simply are not strong enough to absorb the ball and pass it. For others, lack of success, mostly balls that hit their hands and continue over their heads behind them, makes them reluctant to continue to try. For the first group, let them do two-handed finger pushups to strengthen their hands and continue to encourage them. For the second group, you will probably need to reenforce proper handshape and location (in front of their forehead, not on top of their head) They probably also need to remember that this pass needs to be a "hit", not soft catch and pass.

I actually do teach my players to use a "tomahawk" pass, but only as an emergency technique. They need to get their "hachet" up early, then relax it ,or even draw it back slightly ( depending on it's speed) as the ball hits their hands. The only problem I've found is that younger players really like to use it way to much.

Sorry about the delay. Hope you team is doing well. john

[rvrkids 0]

If anyone is still reading this post, please clarify for me what you mean by "praying" position. I know the kids shouldn't swing their arms when bumping but still unclear on "praying".

Also, why emphasize "overhead passing". It seems that overhead passing from the backrow with fingers could easily be a carry. I understand it for front row but when I played (many moons ago) we never did overhand/overhead from the backrow.

Sorry for the questions but I'm just beginning to coach my son's 5th grade team and have lots of questions since it's been so long since I've been truly active with volleyball.

Thanks for the help.

[fmfjohn 0]

rvrkids,

What alot of us refer to as "praying" is a motion that I'm sure you've seen kids use to start their arms moving to a bumping position. What you see is them start by bringing their hands together next to their chest and just below their chin. From there they drop their hands downward-as their elbows go out- carrying their hands to about waist level before sticking them out, away from their body. When you see it in motion, it looks something like a prayer or J motion. Of course, the problem is that it takes way to long to get their passing platform into position, and it almost always finishes with an upward swinging hit.

The prospect of overhead passing from the backrow, of and by itself, shouldn't be a problem. If done with the proper technique there should not be a particular problem with carries. Having 6th,7th & 8th grade girls in gym and on the school team and club, I can say that they have not had a hard time picking up when to and when not to use overhead passing from almost anywhere on the court. This and other forums have, and continue to have, discussions regarding overhead passing of the serve, and while I am in favor of it generally, I also know that there are situations when it should not be used. I would just suggest that you don't rule it out without giving it some serious thought. If I coached the way I learned to play in the late 50's, ... well, I'd hope someone would have kicked me off the bench by now

You might be interested in: "An Understanding of the Fundamental Techinques of Volleyball", by Robert E. Howard, Allyn and Bacon Pub.

"Youth Volleyball - The Guide for Coaches & Parents" by Sharkie and Pat Zartman, Better Way Books Pub.

"Volleyball Cybernetics", by Kellner & Cross, "Yes I Can" Pub.

Good luck with your team!

john

ps: I coached both of my daughters, and they still talk to me, so it can be done

[rvrkids 0]

Thanks so much John.

I totally know what you are talking about with the praying position now. I am also open to the overhead passing thing...my husband uses it all the time in our adult league.

Wish me success with a bunch of boys who all think they can do anything better than girls (haha). I'm going to check out those books you suggested too.

Thanks Again.

Rvrkids

[fmfjohn 0]

rvrkids,

Not only will I wish you luck, but a sense of humor and alot of patience.

Since you are switching between boys and girls, let me recommend one other book that might be interesting. "Gender and Competition" - How Men and Women Approach Work and Play Differently -, by Kathleen J. DeBoer, Coaches Choice Pub. I got my copy via Amazon.

Keep in touch, and let us know how it goes.

john

[Bert 0]

Hello John and rvrkids,

I think I don't understand it. Am I right John, that you mean that your teams play a lot with a overhand pass from the backrow?

Perhaps the next books or videotapes are interesting too:

1. Coaches Guide to beginning volleyball programms - by the USVA

2. Volleyball for Children - by Volleyball Canada (federation de volley-ball du Québec) (this is a english book)

3. Volley Skills and game concepts - beginner to advanced by Robert D. Bratton (also Volleyball Canada)

4. Science of Coaching Volleyball by Carl McGown

5. Jeugdvolleybal - by Emile Rousseaux - this is a very good book, from belgium, but with a lot of pictures andI think this will be very usefull (it's available on http://www.volleyvvb.be/Formulieren/VVBPub...ublicaties.htm)

6. For the technique: Power Volleyball by Arie Selinger. I have also a very good videotape, called Volleyball for the future, also by Selinger, but I don't know if this tape is still available.

Bert

[fmfjohn 0]

Bert,

Yes, I do try to encourage my players to pass as many balls overhand as they can, from any location on the court. Since the change in rules interpretation about two years ago which stopped the automatic fault call for returning serve with an overhead pass, I also want them to pass serve overhead if they can. The "if they can" is more of a physical and mental comfort decision, not a technique one. I definitely think that younger players can and should pass lob serves that way.

Thanks for the book list. I am a book fanatic (my wife says its worse than that!) and my volleyball list has a little over 50 titles. (not so many really, as my golf library has over... well 100 plus titles)

If you like Coach McGown's first book, you might also like "Coaching Volleyball - Building a Winning Team" McGown,Fronske,Moser - Allyn and Bacon Pub. I went to one of Coach McGown's clinics two years ago and it was simply the best I've ever gone to.

Thanks again for the help.

john

[Bert 0]

Bert,

Thanks for the book list.  I am a book fanatic (my wife says its worse than that!) and my volleyball list has a little over 50 titles. (not so many really, as my golf library has over... well 100 plus titles)

john

my wife said the same thing! I am also a book fanatic and this is for me also not even the right word.

I try to read books from all over the world. Half of the familie of my wife lives in Canada, so I am a little bit orientated on Canada, that's why I mentioned those canadian books. Yes, I like the ideas of McGown very much.

Bert

Thanks again John!

[Bert 0]

Bert,

Yes, I do try to encourage my players to pass as many balls overhand as they can, from any location on the court. Since the change in rules interpretation about two years ago which stopped the automatic fault call for returning serve with an overhead pass, I also want them to pass serve overhead if they can. The "if they can" is more of a physical and mental comfort decision, not a technique one. I definitely think that younger players can and should pass lob serves that way.

This is funny, over here we play most of the ball with a forearmpass, only the second ball. This is why we learn the forearm pass as the first technique in circulation volleyball. By the way, I saw you're message on the guestbook of Adrie Noy. Does Adrie or perhaps Wilco (the webmaster) sent you a email already?

Bert

[fmfjohn 0]

Bert,

Yes, Wilco and I have passed e-mails and are looking into a clinic here sometime in the future. If it can be done, I think it would be a real boost to youth volleyball everywhere. We will see.

I don't know how your national association, or local groups apply the rules of volleyball, but for almost since I started playing volleyball in the 50's, you were always called for a fault if you passed the serve with your hands, regardless of how correct your technique was. About three years ago that began to change, and now you just have to have correct technique. So, because I am now coaching girls from age ten through eighteen, I do emphasis overhead passing of any ball, including the serve.

It is interesting that this has come up here, because on another volleyball forum (http: volleyball.about .com/mpboards.htm) we were discussing the arm and hand position in passing ready positions. The narrator had said that he felt that the arms should be held out straight and approximately 45 degrees below horizontal. Until the change in rule interpretation I had always taught essentially the same position, but over the last two years I have gradually changed my thinking on it. Since so many of the serves of beginning players are not very hard and are quite often high arching balls, it seems to me that an arm/hand position that allows for a more "equal" movement between forearm and overhead passing would be preferable, and that is what I now teach.

What I am recommending is that while the body posture remains the same, the arms now are bent at the elbow, with the elbows slightly outside the body, and the forearms are raised, bringing the hands almost together, a little below the chin. The hands are also turned in so that the palms just about face each other and are perhaps four to six inches apart. (I hope that is fairly clear)

Having only used this for two years, with four teams, I may not have enough experience yet to make a definite decision. but so far it seems to be working better than the older method. Having worked recently with girls with whom I had trained in the traditional form, the biggest thing they comment on is that this new posture seems to allow them to move faster to get to the ball. A few have said that they feel as if it is easier to change their arm location to either bump or set position, but body movement does seem to be the major benefit.

Do you (or anyone else ) have any ideas on the subject?

john