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Lost Our Last Game

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We had our last game of the year this past Saturday. We played a team that we had beaten on two previous occasions. I felt if we could just get the rebounds and lose balls we would easily win this game.

We we worked hard in practice on that main objective all week. Saturday, we were completely out hustled and out rebounded.

Plus, our head coach (me) did a very poor job of managing the game. In our league (3&4th grade girls) you can only play defese once the ball has passed beyond the circle at half court. We put in a play where one gaurd would bring the ball up the court on the side then pass it over to the point gaurd in the middle. We did this for two reasons. One, I wanted to force a defender out there with her to create more space in the lane. The second reason was so that my pg could hold the ball and fake a pass before putting the ball on the floor hoping to give her an advatage on her defender.

Well, I explained this to the officials before the game so that the defense would not be allowed to cut across and intercept the pass. Well my first big mistake was actually thinking the refs would enforce this rule.

During the game they intercepted four passes in the "no defense allowed" zone and made 6 points off of them. I spoke with the officials again at halftime and they admitted that they made the mistakes and would do a better job in the second half.

My second mistake was not allowing my daughter to continue her three point attempts. She made two in a row and when she missed her first one I told her no more, simply b/c I didn't want the other parents to think my daughter was a ball hog. I should have waited until she missed a couple more before stopping her.

At the end of the game we were down by three with 2:19 left. In our league you are only allowed to press with 2:00 or less. Well the otehr team would not clear out of the back court, eventhough one official was telling them to. The other official was holding the ball and all the while the clock was running. The clock finally ran down to two minutes and they were allowed to press. We turned the ball over from the press and they scored again. They ended up beating us by five.

This one will stick with me for a while. I think I worked too hard at keeping my composure this year and there were times during this game that I should have been out on the court letting a little steam out to get a message through.

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PB... I feel your pain we didn't end our season with a great last game either as you saw from my TOO AGRESSIVE post. We drew a bye the first week, lost our 2nd, won the next 5 and then lost the last one in that battle. It was a really tough loss for us because we knew we were better than that team and should have beat them. We self destructed defensively and our shots just were not falling. Compund that with the mental anguish from getting beat up by the one girl and it was easy to see why we lost. I felt responsible because we just couldn't put anything in motion to get our girls' heads back in the game. We tried Ray J's suggestion from that other post but our girls just were not into it. Our frustration with the officiating also got the best of us and I think our girls fed off of it. You better believe that in our tournament we will remember this game and if we come up against that team again they will not beat us... :) At least I pray our girls can go into it against them again without the memory of the game in the back of their minds, we'll see! ;)

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Hi guys,

This one will stick with me for a while
You better believe that in our tournament we will remember this game and if we come up against that team again they will not beat us...

Are you guys(PB) maybe too focused on the W's and L's at 3rd and 4th grade(not sure about mavs kids age). I would think if the kids had fun and improved their skills it would have been a great season. Isn't this the focus at this age? I like to win and don't care for losing myself. Sure we play to win that's why we keep score, but I would think winning and losing is waaaay down on the list at this stage of the game. Maybe I'm reading too much into the posts, if so this can just serve as a reminder to myself....

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Yikes!

I am as competative as the next person, but being the parent of a 10 yr old and a non coach at this league (I'm softball), I can look at this from all around.

Basketball is the first "contact" sport girls are faced with as soccer doesn't "bang around" until U-12/U14 and hockey is no check until 14?

That said, the ref's, and apologies to all who strive to be the best, allow way too much "slash and grab" at the younger levels.And, sorry again< the coaches teach the girls to grab the ball and swing it to get the jump, even if posession is for the other team. My daughter was lifted at least a foot off the floor and swung, with the ball, 4 feet, causing extensive bruising and swelling of her hip. No foul called.

If you follow college ball, and I am a U Conn fan, you NEVER see this. It just doesn't happen, yet our "little girls" are taught to "slash and grab"

In my town, opinions are that the ref's who ref this level, are not asked to ref older, more experienced teams and NEVER the boys, so we get the dregs.

I have coached both soccer and softball for 8 yrs and basketball at the YMCA for 3 seasons. I refuse to take a team with this town league.

For those who emphasize wins over losses, step back and take an honest look at who is playing, your kids or you as a kid who wanted to be on a winning team or was on a winning team. At this level, the neurons in a child's brain have not made the connections needed to rationalize win/loss. all they see and understand is if I win I will be liked. If I lose, I'm no good. Black and white. In the grand scheme of things, NO ONE will remember the season they played for the pink team and they won, they may remember the coach who yelled or the coach who brought cookies. I'd rather be the cookie coach.

With all my teams, I emphasize basic fundamentals, knowledge of rules and love of the spotrt. Yes I have had the satisfaction of landing the best pitcher or the best middie, but once they are one my team , we all play on an even playing field. there is alay room to learn, including myself.

In fact I learned a really hard lesson this past week. After a heated "slash and grab" primarilly involving my daughter and the opposing coache's daughter, an argument ensued in the parking lot, between a very loud and incitful male coach and amd daughter's coach, a young college kid. Fearing that blows would be exchanged, I placed myself inbetween the two, and tried to mediate. After all had calmed sdown and we had all left the parking lot, I recieved a phone call that the opposing coach had filed a complaint against me and my daughter's coach. The long and short was that I was banned from one game and my daughter's coach was asked to resign. The male coach, is riding scott free because "we" thought is was a parking lot argument and was ended and never considered filing a complaint. Because he was mose savy to this, and I found out that there are numerous complaints waged against him in the soccer program, he knew the ropes and blind-sided us.

Thanks forr letting me to "vent". I am still quite angry about this and am considering legal action against the basketball board, by the way, which consists of 2 mothers, one of whom is married to another coach who coaches this ones daughter on a CYO league and they are close friends with the other board member .

On a positive note, my daughter was spotted by an AAU coach , while she was "messing around" at her older brother's game, and has been asked to join the top team in this area. We are thinking about it but she's my ace in softball AND she is ONLY 10! :unsure:

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Saugussoftball, you need to tell your side of the story if you haven't already. If you have, take comfort in the fact that you did the right thing and these other folks are just plain out of line and living in some sort of warped world. Pull your daughter out of the league and find a league that is run by responsible adults with refs that at the very least can call a safe game. Get yourself involved on a board, coaching or reffing if you have the time in the next league you join, If not just try to keep an eye on everything and get to know those that are running the show.

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Having lost our last game knowing how far we had come and how they were mentally beat down by the physical game is what was painful to see. We had a lot of fun "learning" and for our girls to use what they learned in practice to win a game made it even more fun for them. To see them beam with a smile when you pointed out all the things they did right as opposed to bringing up all they did wrong is probably the single greatest feeling as a coach. We are never short on pointing out how proud of them we were whether they were winning or losing, as I had mentioned we did lose that game by 4 and I couldn't have been more proud of the girls for not emulating the behavior they were exposed to and for not giving up even when we were down by 10 points.. THEY didn't want to get beat and THEY worked really hard to come back within 4 pts.... it was all heart. We went 4-3 our first season but at the end it didn't feel that way because in every game we played our hearts out, we felt like winners.

Let's face it, how much fun could these kids possibly be having when they lose every game? After 2 or 3 losses in a row, there is the mental toll that these kids feel, you can "pump" them up all you want but you cannot change how they feel when they feel they work hard in the game and you tell them they are working hard and doing things right but they keep losing. This is the age where mentally the loss become tougher and tougher for them. At 3rd grade the score was not shown, in 4th grade there is now a score being shown, there is a reason for it... at this age they are being introduced to what the "game" is really like at the competative level, this is where the kids and parents will decide if going on to play competatively is for them or whether or not they will stay at the recreational level. .. sausgussoftball said it about how the kids feel about W's and L's, and that's just it... they do feel that way within themselves, it's not the coaches feelings about wins or losses, we never yelled at them because they were losing, we spoke to them about doing the things they'd remembered from practice and as long as they did those things they could reflect on the game knowing that they played how they were suppose to and that sometimes you will fall short... it's part of the game. It's part of life, it's reality.. you cannot sugar coat it because they'll feel it anyway.

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I hear you Mav. I know its part of life, but our kids take the que from us. I think the que should be give it your all and if you do that then that's all you can do. Play hard, have fun, shake hands and go on with your day. It's a game after all. However, my daughter went through a soccer season where she not only basically lost all of the games, but the scores were like 6-0, 8-1, 7-0, 5-0, you get the point. Now that will take the fun out of sport. I wished during that season the games would have at least been competetive. That was a terrible situation. She hated it. We hated watching her go through. I think you can learn alot by losing, but not by getting your brains beat in by teams that are obviously more talented game after game. I think ideally you would be in a league where most teams would be 4-6, 5-5, 6-4, etc but it ain't gonna happen very often. I agree if you lose all of your games that would get old and it would be nice to win once in awhile, but we as parents and coaches need to emphasize teaching kids to give their best and if they do that then they should be proud. We need to tell them you will have seasons that you will be 2-8 and you will have seasons you will be 8-2. The only thing you can control is your effort. I agree losing is no fun, but we can't really control how good the other team is. We can't really control how good the refs are either. I understand your frustration, but I was really directing my comments more to PB and I indicated that. He mentioned he had beat that team twice already so it wasn't like he had been in a constant losing situation like you're describing. I understand life and reality and sugar coating, but I'm not sure you can make that argument just yet when they don't keep score in 3rd grade in your league and then suddenly in 4th grade they do and now it's welcome to the real world kids!! I think it's a little more gradual than that. These kids might be a little down right when they lose a game, but I bet about a half an hour after they have forgotten all about it.

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You know, for the most part, all of us who contribute to these forums, all think pretty much alike.

It's all about the kids, their egos and their emotions.

Since we all think alike, can we annex another planet and form our own league!

YCoach has been such a good forum that I have recommended all the good coachs that I know to take a look and join in. One by one, maybe we can "change the world"

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smsjr... I had to chuckle when I read your post about them forgetting about the loss in a half hour. We had an end of the season Pizza Party following that game and I totally got a kick out of one of our girls who rationalized the loss by saying " I think we all just had the party on our minds today!" It really was quite cute :)

I need to correct myself on the scoring situation, the score wasn't displayed when they were in 2nd grade and this year in 3rd it is. We have girls who became obsessed with the score table... they would walk up and down the court staring at it rather than pay attention to what they are suppose to be doing... they made all sorts of facial expressions in accordance with what ever the score is and we had to on several occasions point out to them that they needed to play the game instead of worrying about what the score is. Before this year they had no idea who won or lost and in their minds they always won. Now they see it and have to deal with the emotions that come with it. It was a big step into reality. At 4th grade they have either a competative league which they must be selected to play on or a recreational league they can voluntarily play in, making my assesement pretty dead on. The leagues start at 5 years old , the rules change each year as players develop, it became apparent that the transistion from it's 100% fun to it's now ALSO competition is happening at this age level. It doesn't stay just for FUN for every child as they develop a love for the game and the skills to be pretty good players, their expectation of winning comes with it, is it the most important thing in the world to them or their coaches at this age???... very unlikely!

I appreciate the insight from your perspective! I'm quite certain that our loss affected the coaches more than the players, you always feel that you are responsible for the loss and you feel like you let them down somehow. The quote you took from my first post pretty much defines how we feel. We believe that we could prepare the girls to play them again and this time they will prevail. That's probably how the opponent felt about PB's team. An interesting twist!

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I agree with with you mav that around this age kids more and more often now are having to decide if they want to just play rec or if they want to get more competitive. This happened to my daughter's soccer team just like you described(I think you were talking about basketball though). Most of the kids were getting serious after having played since age 5. A few were just there for fun and the social aspect. So the serious ones joined a select soccer club. My daughter is now a retired soccer player at age 10 after doing select soccer for less than a year. What a shame. She could still be playing if she wanted to - doesn't miss it at all. It wasn't fun anymore. It was work. She had the skills - she scored in every game in their player development league in the spring then she played in the fall league I mentioned in the other post where they got creamed every game by 5,6,7 or more goals - it did her in.

It's too bad it isn't like it used to be when we were kids when we played every sport in its season. My daughter started playing basketball last year and played some off season ball and is doing that again this year. She started volleyball last year. She gave up softball early on because it was boring - I can't blame her. Basketball and Volleyball aren't too bad - climate controlled! :P I understand the reality is if kids want to play in high school they need to start deciding on a sport or two early on (not sure when - maybe by 6th grade?) unless they are just an exceptionally gifted athlete. I wish it wasn't this way.

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A final chapter (I doubt!)

Last week, my daughter's b-ball team lost their bid for 1st place in the lower bracket They lost..... It's over. it's done.................WRONG!

My daughter was nominated s an all star. she really is the best on her team.....she lost her bid. I was told, that the ONE board member (whom I have had issues with) tallies all the SECRET votes, and selects the "All Star"team. Tonight I asked to see the tallies and was told that they were "shredded"

My daughter is a shy, struggling, talented athelete.

Because she is shy, we don't push issues, but the older she gets, wer know we have to push. How much is OK and ow much is invasive?

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That said, the ref's, and apologies to all who strive to be the best, allow way too much "slash and grab" at the younger levels.And, sorry again< the coaches teach the girls to grab the ball and swing it to get the jump, even if posession is for the other team.  My daughter was lifted  at least a foot off the floor and swung, with the ball, 4 feet, causing extensive bruising and swelling of her hip.  No foul called.

If you follow college ball, and I am a U Conn fan, you NEVER see this.  It just doesn't happen, yet our "little girls" are taught to "slash and grab"

IN response to Saugussoftball, who said-

"That said, the ref's, and apologies to all who strive to be the best, allow way too much "slash and grab" at the younger levels.And, sorry again< the coaches teach the girls to grab the ball and swing it to get the jump, even if posession is for the other team. My daughter was lifted at least a foot off the floor and swung, with the ball, 4 feet, causing extensive bruising and swelling of her hip. No foul called."

I appreciate that this is how it must look from the stands, but "slash and grab" is not a tactic, it is not against the rules, and it's not taught by coaches. What IS taught by coaches is to grab the ball if an opposing player is untrained and inexperienced enough to hold the ball out in front of you- that's what you are supposed to do. In fact, the good coaching tactic is to teach them to grab the ball, and simultaneously move your body into the ball while twisting your torso, to rip the ball away from the opponent using the strength of the body. I've seen kids lifted perpidicular to the floor while being swung in a complete circle, a foot is nothing.

Any time a player holds the ball out where the defender can get it, the defender should always try to take it away. The object of basketball defense is to get the ball back with out the opponent scoring. I do agree that some kids are too aggressive, and it can be dangerous if there is a significant size/weight difference. As for my own coaching instruction ( I coach middle school girls)- I tell them to let go of the ball the second they hear the whistle. The real danger in this isn't from the bruises that come from getting thrown, bruises are a part of the game; it's from getting a skinny under developed arm pinned against the floor when a held-ball situation goes to the floor and one player tries to roll over the other using the ball for leverage. This can cause a dislocated elbow, or a broken arm. As a coach I can't tell other teams how to play, so I protect my players by drilling them to let go as soon as they hear the whistle. I also teach them to never, ever jump on somebodys arm who is on the floor, or use the ball to flip someone over who is on the floor.

One strange observation- there are a lot of held ball calls in youth boys games too, but for some reason the boys don't try to over-power eachother and wrestle for the ball like girls do. The girls really try to muscle each other.

Saugassoftball said-

If you follow college ball, and I am a U Conn fan, you NEVER see this. It just doesn't happen, yet our "little girls" are taught to "slash and grab"

The reason you almost never see a held ball at college level is because the players have learned how to to protect the ball. They know how to "chin" the ball, they know how to pivot. They don't have 10 year old habits any longer. It really is that simple. Believe me, if an opponent ever was foolish enough to hold the ball out in front of Diana Tarausi (sp) she would "slash & grab" as you say in a second. btw- I've never heard that term before- "slash & grab."

Of greater concern to me is your comments about a law suit. That makes my stomach turn. It just once more reinforces the opinion I have that parents are what is wrong with youth sports. Parents are ruining youth sports. Youth leagues can't absorb law suits! Law suits can destroy youth leagues. Instead do something pro-active.

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Wow. I didn't realize what I started. :D

Let me just clarify a few things.

My main concern is the well being of my players. I teach them the fundamentals of the game as best I can. I do not yell at them. Ever.

The only time I actually "got on to" my girls was after the game a couple of them said the other team cheated. I told them "No, they just out hustled us and out coached us."

I took them out for ice cream after the game and we were all smiles and having a great time. I told the girls how much they all mean to me and how proud I was of them. I told them that beating us today made that other team's season. I guess I probably should have made it clear in my original post that I was the one beating myself up over the game. The girls are champs!

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