smsjr

Keep fighting the good fight Ribman.

In that case(in an instructional league), I would just blow the whistle and explain to the kid he was walking and give it back to him out of bounds and ignore the mom. How obnoxious was she? I would think if she was telling(yelling) the kid to run to the basket she would have embarrased herself. If all of the parents are being that ridiculous I don't know what to tell you. If kids are getting roughed up then there needs to be more whistles and more explaining to the kids as to what fouls are. That also tells me that you can't let the held balls go on for 5 seconds - blow the whistle right away. I really think you need to push for the no steals rule. We did not have any problems in 10 games in my son's 1st/2nd grade league with regards to kids getting roughed up. We had a few kids that were kind of holding on defense, but that was it. The only held balls we had were off of rebounds and the occasional loose balls that resulted from a kid losing a ball off a dribble which was rare. I know you want the game to flow, but the kids are going to have to learn what a foul is. Maybe if you called a bunch of fouls early in the game they wouldn't be so aggressive? It's going to be tough until the offensive skills catch up to the defensive pressure of the kids going after the ball. Maybe explain what a foul is to the kids before the game and tell them not to fight over held balls - once the whistle blows let go of a held ball.

That's a tough one. They had a "no stealing passes" rule, but it was a little tough to be consistent enforcing. They tried to enforce it such that a kid couldn't step in front of a pass and steal, but lob passes in a crowd were fair game. Loose balls were fair game if a kid lost his dribble off his foot and stuff like that. It was a good rule too and like you said contributed to giving the game a nice flow for that age group. I'm in favor of that rule too, just be aware that there will be many that are too close to call and the refs will have to let them go to keep the game going - the coaches/parents will have to be patient and should be told(pre-season meeting) about the rule and to relax about it. I think explaining all of this before the season goes a long way in heading off problems. I think every parent should have to coach/ref one time and that would help them not be so quick to pop off as well.

There is an easy solution, but it depends on convincing those who makes the rules. The YMCA league that my son just finished (1st/2nd graders) has a rule that the defense cannot steal the ball. It makes perfect sense because of the problem you describe. At this age the offense is too far behind the defense and you see the result. You can hardly have a basketball game(maybe you could get the coaches to agree before the game for now). Also, I would not suggest letting a held ball go. I would blow the whistle as soon as two opposing players have their hands on it. It can get ugly and kids can get hurt. On one hand you want kids to learn to pivot and protect the ball from defenders(but they really can't at this age), on the other hand you don't want them fighting over the ball and wrestling matches. I would error on the side of stopping play and alternating possession. I would also error on blowing the whistle too soon at 3rd and 4th grade after watching my daughter. Fighting over the ball is where I've seen bad sportsmanship start in games. Especially if you see kids yanking on the ball after the whistle, I would put an end to that right away. It gets out of hand quickly and it gets the parents going as well. I would really try and have the rule changed to no stealing for that age group so you could have a basketball game. The kids will adjust just fine in 3rd grade to being able to steal the ball and tie up again.

Coach7 - thanks for sharing some real good points. I think you'll get a charge out of this based on your points. This tournament we(I coach my daughter's 4th grade team) just played in a couple of weeks ago. The other team was running a 1/2 court zone trap and I was imploring my daughter to do kind of what you just suggested. They had 2 girls trying to trap her, one along the sideline, but there was a nice gap that my daughter could just go right through along the sideline - they weren't cutting off the sideline. I kept telling her to keep going knowing if there was contact it would be a defensive foul. In my excitement I said something like "Just run into her" out loud during play - really meaning for her to keep on going along the sideline and if there was contact it would be ok. The ref, who really was a terrific ref, heard me and since it was 4th grade girls thought I was teaching our girls to barrell over the other team - which I wasn't. He told me to "Coach them the right way, Coach" and when my daughter kept going - even when the defender was doing the body bump thing as a she went by he put his hand behind his head and called a charge on my daughter even though there was no way it was a charge. He was just proving a point and trying to be protective of the girls. I understand now and his motive was on target - trying to keep what he thought was an overzealous coach inline. I never got a chance to explain myself after the game - he caught me off guard at the time as I've never had anything like that happen to me before - I was shocked and just kind of looked at him - I think he was ready to T me up if I protested - never been T'd up before either - so I sat down in disbelief at the call. I was just trying to get her to do what you were kind of explaining. One thing I would watch out for is if there are 2 girls standing there you might not always get that call - even if you should. It seems like the refs don't like to make a foul call when kids drive into 2 or more kids even when there is a foul - granted it is a tough call to see. I guess as long as they drive outside/around the trap/crowd they should be in good shape to get the call. I like the idea of using the blocking pad for that in practice. I was going to start using that for layups, but why not for what you describe as well? I also agree the pass over the middle will be tough with the age descrepency. A screen or pick and roll pass might be a better option to get the ball past half court - or a pass down to the corner - It will really just depend on where they are set up on defense - the girls will have to spread out and should be strong enough at that age to make a pass.

Good advice on the fakes - lots of fakes. If they have 3 girls waiting for your pg at the half court line you have to beat them with a deep pass or a pass right over their head in the middle. Try spreading your girls out as wide as possible just to get the ball past half court and attack for maybe an easy chance like you're already talking about. Maybe a girl in each corner(not all the way in the corner but fairly deep and wide, a girl at the top of the key and a girl on the wing as your pg comes up. Your wing can try the screen for the pg and if they are bunching up to stop the screen - one of the three(2 deep or girl at top of the key) should be open for a long pass with the other 2 cutting to the basket for a pass. They will need to come hard to the ball for the pass, but if they are bunching up with more than 2 girls at the top - one of the 3 has to be open. pick and roll might be open after the screen for your pg if they only have 2 defenders at half court if they are concentrating too much on your pg. Hope that helps and good luck - tough to play up like that!

I would also suggest that some of these others may well end up being basketball stars someday and that it is waaaay too early to tell with them. It may be obvious that this one has talent, but who knows which one of these others may some day. All kids develop at different times so don't assume that these others may not as well some day be going places. I'm sure there are some future basketball stars out there that have never touched a basketball. There are professional athletes that never played their sport until high school or maybe even college. It sounds like you are focusing too much on this one little guy. I don't think you need to worry about building and maintaining his confidence - it's the others I think need work. He is light years ahead. I think they all deserve equal attention at this age. Sounds like he will move up a year or two next year and maybe that is really what he needs. Give them all equal attention - they all paid equally when they signed up. Keep if fun for all of them.

I think at that age you have to have as equal playing time as possible as tough as that may be. They signed up to play even if they aren't acting interested. The challenge is to motivate them and to make it fun. Take the emphasis off of scoring. Praise them for the little things like staying with their man on defense. Especially get excited about making a pass to their teammates. However, You could make a case for playing the talented kid more *if* you make it his job to set the others up for shots. He can be your tool to get the others *into* the game. Tell the other kids to get open under the basket and the talented kid will get them a pass for a shot. If they can score maybe that will spark their interest and get them going. My son's 1st/2nd grade league requires mtm and does not allow steals. We've worked on screens in practice but haven't used them in games because we haven't had trouble scoring. Maybe your talented kid could screen for the other kids and free them up for a drive to the hoop? Hope one of these ideas can help - good luck!

I agree with with you mav that around this age kids more and more often now are having to decide if they want to just play rec or if they want to get more competitive. This happened to my daughter's soccer team just like you described(I think you were talking about basketball though). Most of the kids were getting serious after having played since age 5. A few were just there for fun and the social aspect. So the serious ones joined a select soccer club. My daughter is now a retired soccer player at age 10 after doing select soccer for less than a year. What a shame. She could still be playing if she wanted to - doesn't miss it at all. It wasn't fun anymore. It was work. She had the skills - she scored in every game in their player development league in the spring then she played in the fall league I mentioned in the other post where they got creamed every game by 5,6,7 or more goals - it did her in. It's too bad it isn't like it used to be when we were kids when we played every sport in its season. My daughter started playing basketball last year and played some off season ball and is doing that again this year. She started volleyball last year. She gave up softball early on because it was boring - I can't blame her. Basketball and Volleyball aren't too bad - climate controlled! I understand the reality is if kids want to play in high school they need to start deciding on a sport or two early on (not sure when - maybe by 6th grade?) unless they are just an exceptionally gifted athlete. I wish it wasn't this way.

I hear you Mav. I know its part of life, but our kids take the que from us. I think the que should be give it your all and if you do that then that's all you can do. Play hard, have fun, shake hands and go on with your day. It's a game after all. However, my daughter went through a soccer season where she not only basically lost all of the games, but the scores were like 6-0, 8-1, 7-0, 5-0, you get the point. Now that will take the fun out of sport. I wished during that season the games would have at least been competetive. That was a terrible situation. She hated it. We hated watching her go through. I think you can learn alot by losing, but not by getting your brains beat in by teams that are obviously more talented game after game. I think ideally you would be in a league where most teams would be 4-6, 5-5, 6-4, etc but it ain't gonna happen very often. I agree if you lose all of your games that would get old and it would be nice to win once in awhile, but we as parents and coaches need to emphasize teaching kids to give their best and if they do that then they should be proud. We need to tell them you will have seasons that you will be 2-8 and you will have seasons you will be 8-2. The only thing you can control is your effort. I agree losing is no fun, but we can't really control how good the other team is. We can't really control how good the refs are either. I understand your frustration, but I was really directing my comments more to PB and I indicated that. He mentioned he had beat that team twice already so it wasn't like he had been in a constant losing situation like you're describing. I understand life and reality and sugar coating, but I'm not sure you can make that argument just yet when they don't keep score in 3rd grade in your league and then suddenly in 4th grade they do and now it's welcome to the real world kids!! I think it's a little more gradual than that. These kids might be a little down right when they lose a game, but I bet about a half an hour after they have forgotten all about it.

There is no reason a coach cannot talk to the refs in a calm manner and point out things. Even in high school a captain is allowed to talk to the refs as well. If it is done in a respectful manner there is nothing wrong with a coach talking to a ref when a ref is close to the coach or during a timeout or halftime. I would call a timeout and call the refs over to the bench or the scorer's table and point out the offending behavior and ask them to watch. If it continues, ask them for an explanation of why they aren't calling it. That is ridiculous especially if kids are being injured.

Saugussoftball, you need to tell your side of the story if you haven't already. If you have, take comfort in the fact that you did the right thing and these other folks are just plain out of line and living in some sort of warped world. Pull your daughter out of the league and find a league that is run by responsible adults with refs that at the very least can call a safe game. Get yourself involved on a board, coaching or reffing if you have the time in the next league you join, If not just try to keep an eye on everything and get to know those that are running the show.

Hi guys, Are you guys(PB) maybe too focused on the W's and L's at 3rd and 4th grade(not sure about mavs kids age). I would think if the kids had fun and improved their skills it would have been a great season. Isn't this the focus at this age? I like to win and don't care for losing myself. Sure we play to win that's why we keep score, but I would think winning and losing is waaaay down on the list at this stage of the game. Maybe I'm reading too much into the posts, if so this can just serve as a reminder to myself....