439 replies to this topic

[rushbuster70]

I coach 11-14 year olds.


Any coaches have any Ideas on how to beat a 2-1-2 Defense???We've had a lot of issues trying to beat this.We went to the middle but they stopped blitzing so we just couldn't move the ball.Any help?

Of course the middle is always a good way to strike at a spread out zone. The other thing that comes to mind immediately is to overload or flood the zone. Basically placing more receivers than defenders in an area. Here's a simple example. 2 receivers right, 1 left and the center, qb. One right receiver goes long taking the safety deep. The other right receiver does a down and out and then holds near the sideline. The left receiver stays left between the safety and corner effectively tying up both defenders. Now the center goes about 5 yards and makes a right. The safety was previously taken long. Now the corner has to cover the center who is coming into his zone and the receiver sitting near the sideline. If they work off each other there is no way the corner can cover both. The safety can't leave the guy deep. You could also run this play with 3 receivers on the same side.

Another thing depends on how close the corners play off the los. If they give a lot of cushion throw a quick pass to the receiver and let him try to run outside. This play also sets up a double pass and/ or a hook and lateral.

Also try to run a lateral pass or pitchout to a running back who has the option to pass or run. If he can get to one side or another really quickly the defenders on that side have to come up to make the flag pull or stay in coverage. A good quick decision by the ball carrier can yield a big gain. Ie, throw if the defense comes in, run if they stay in coverage. If there are also a couple of receivers on that side, one deep and one medium, someone should be open. Do that a few times and then you could even throw back to the qb.

We tried to flood one zone and it didnt work...We just need to practice it more because thats what we will do to them next time.But we had no luck making that adjustment during the game.I knew exactly how to flood a zone.The kids just couldn't run the right routes.

We definitely will give that shot next time
Those little lateral and pitchouts just don't work against that team.They are way too fast lol...

[Johnp2]

One play that really worked well for us is the Statue of Liberty. Let your QB sling it a few times, and then run the play. Every team we faced this year complimented us on it. Also try a shuffle pass. Get them to respect the deep throw and then they will play a softer zone. From there mix in a "fake pass" (you have to sell it well--make sure your QB is real demonstrative about it) and you will be surprised how much room your RB has to run. These are not home run plays, but certainly something that guaranteed us 7-10 yards each time we ran them as long as they were called at the right time. Zone or no zone, when the coach starts yelling "pass!" that defense will soften, and then you hit them in the gut.

[rushbuster70]

There is no way to to throw it deep on this team.They have 2 safeties that are rediculous good.They have one kid who I have never ever seen at this age who can break on the ball.Both have amazing speed and they play about 20 yards off the line of scrimmage & automatically just back up.They keep everything in front of them.Its really just amazing how good these 2 safeties are.

[Orange]

Right, if the safeties play that deep then there should be room for the statue of liberty which is really more of a draw play. It worked for us too on occasion but teams that play close to the los are more likely to shut it down quickly.

[Orange]

bump to the top.

[Coach Rob]

Had our coach's meeting a few nights ago for the upcoming season. Couple of changes I really liked:

Mercy rule: if a team gets up by 18 points, the losing team takes possession 6 yards from mid-field instead of 5 yards from their own end zone. We had teams last yr who were crushing other teams on a consistent basis 50-0, 64-7, etc.

2 ball touches per kid per half: This isn't an official rule, but they put it in the material being handed out and emphasized it heavily. They suggested getting one of the parents to volunteer to keep track of touches. During the parents meeting on the 1st day they will re-emphasize this with the parents which should add some accountability to the coaches.

Personally, I like the 2 ball touch "unwritten rule", it will help create parity and keep the focus off scores and standings and put the focus on the kids playing and having fun.

Btw, these new changes came about in our league because of suggestions from coaches and parents. If you play for I-9, I'd highly recommend getting involved with the Sports Director and shooting out feedback.

CRob

[Johnp2]

I'm not a fan of the mercy rule. Like your league, we had a few (three, actually) "powerhouse" teams that would whoop up on opponents. One of them (the best team) really put their foot on their opponents throats from start to finish and would easily be up 24-0 in the first quarter and just pile it on from there. I think in one game I watched they won something like 77-0. I personally don't believe in that, but if that is the style he wishes to play I think he should be allowed.

Luckily we were never on the losing end of a thrashing like that (and we played that team twice). However, when we did get down (and we were down by 18 in a few games), I told the kids if they don't like it to stop them. One of my favorite moments this season (against that team no-less). We were down by probably 15-20 points. There were only a few seconds left. They had 4th and goal at about the three-yard line. I heard their coach laugh and tell the ref, "We'll just give it to them, we'll 'punt'."

This means we'd get the ball back on our own 20. However, when I heard that I lectured him a bit explaining how we want NO charity, we expect our opponents best, and on top of that, we planned on stopping them on that play. He was a bit irked about that, so I know he tried to pull out all the stops on that final play. Well---we stopped them! I can tell you that when the whistle blew, you would have thought we won the game due to how we were all jumping for joy after stopping them. If I would have accepted the "mercy" he offered, we would have walked out of there like whipped pups, but we didn't. We took their best, and rolled with that.

I guess my point is I think the mercy rule should be optional. Thus if you find a coach out there that does not want charity, he should be allowed to just play the game.

[Orange]

77-0 is kind of crazy. I'd say anything over 40-0 is pretty much a beat down. We've been on the winning end of 30-0 games before. When it gets to that point I will have kids playing qb who never even practiced the position. I line my defense up with a 10 yard cushion so the other team can gain some yards. It's no fun to humilate a team like that, in my opinion.

[Johnp2]

77-0 is kind of crazy. I'd say anything over 40-0 is pretty much a beat down.

Oh yes, I agree. I watched that team play probably six games (including two against us), and even the other two "power-house" teams they beat by about 30. We were VERY fortunate in our first game in that 1) We lost only 16-7, and 2) We were the only team to score on them all season (and I heard no one scored on them last season). Both of those two things really fumed their coach (after all, it was not supposed to be that close) and he even emailed me prior to our second game we played that he would not be taking his foot off the pedal all game---and he was not kidding. I replied he hasn't yet to let up on any team he's played all season, so why would that game be any different. ;-) We lost 20-0 (I think) in our second game against them, which was still too close for him. I really had him thinking I was a little crazy. During pre-game warm-ups, my kids were playing "tackle the man with the ball" while his were running their drills. I went up and asked him if his players wanted to play "tackle the man with the ball" with us. ;-) I could tell I got in his head some, thus I enjoyed rattling him.

We only "blew out" two teams this season. If we'd get up by 20+ points in the fourth quarter, I would simply just call vanilla plays. I don't have "b" players, thus the concept of giving the ball to my lesser-skilled players does not exist, as everyone gets the ball equally. Consequently, you can't tell the players, "Don't go hard on this play", so really all you can do is milk the clock and call plays you think the defense has a chance to stop. Doing this, I believe, is evident to everyone that you are not trying to run up the score.

I watched this team (many times) go for two points while up over 50 points on their opponent, and then saw their coach jumping for joy afterwords. Everyone saw what was going on, and his reputation is known. If he doesn't care about that, then that is his choice.

I think, however, a team yelling "mercy" at some point in the game is something you don't want to teach the kids. There was one game this season we got whipped (I think it was 38-0 or something). I told the kids to suck it up and keep fighting. Basically, don't give up----which is what I think the mercy rule is. Just my opinion. ;-)

[pointyfootball]

77-0 is kind of crazy. I'd say anything over 40-0 is pretty much a beat down. We've been on the winning end of 30-0 games before. When it gets to that point I will have kids playing qb who never even practiced the position. I line my defense up with a 10 yard cushion so the other team can gain some yards. It's no fun to humilate a team like that, in my opinion.

There's no cause for winning by that much. None. Any coach that can't do things, without directly telling his players to back of, isn't worth his salt. Put your worst player at Safety and QB and maybe reduce your best players playing time for games where you're much better than the other team, then play them more against better teams. Lots of ways.

Coaches that win by large margins on a consistent basis should have to either a) quit coaching or in the case of just having a ridiculously stacked team: have the team split up. It does NO one any good for a team to win by that much. The kids playing on both teams are challenged enough, and therefore are not developing to their full potential, AND it goes against everything sports is supposed to be teaching kids.

My story is when we played the worst team in our division. They had scored 6 points in 3 games. Our defense was the #1 defense up until that point. We got up on them something like 19-0 by half and you could tell we could score whenever we wanted to. I took our safety out who is a phenomenal football player and put a less-strong defense in there, but the kids kept playing hard. We ended up winning something like 26-12, but the other team was actually so happy that they had scored a few touchdowns (one a pick-six by someone who didn't play QB for us, and another by a nice run by their best player). Our league had playoffs where everyone made it and seedings were randomly picked. So, even if we lost that game, big deal. It let us work players in positions they didn't normally get a lot of game time in, and actually paid off in the playoffs.


PF

[pointyfootball]

I watched this team (many times) go for two points while up over 50 points on their opponent, and then saw their coach jumping for joy afterwords. Everyone saw what was going on, and his reputation is known. If he doesn't care about that, then that is his choice.

I think, however, a team yelling "mercy" at some point in the game is something you don't want to teach the kids. There was one game this season we got whipped (I think it was 38-0 or something). I told the kids to suck it up and keep fighting. Basically, don't give up----which is what I think the mercy rule is. Just my opinion. ;-)

Coaches like that should be banned, IMHO. If he's that "good" (which I doubt, more like he just has best players), then he needs to be coaching at high school or college level where that's tolerated.

I too am against mercy rule. I also think that if your team went undefeated by significant margins the previous season/year, they should be disbanded. But, I'm weird that way. I've seen too many soccer teams (my main coaching specialty) that were powerhouses when they were young (u-9) not produce any truly talented kids b/c the team became lazy from not being challenged at the very impressionable ages of 10-12 y/os. Some losing is good for kids, it hopefully motivates them to work harder on their own and in games.

PF

[Johnp2]

I too am against mercy rule. I also think that if your team went undefeated by significant margins the previous season/year, they should be disbanded. But, I'm weird that way.

That is what I was slapped with right across the face this season. We had three teams in our league that played together for many years. I had heard that going into the season (actually I was warned by the Sports Director when I volunteered), but I thought nothing of it. I thought, "so?".

While I don't see anything wrong with that, it does make an INCREDIBLE difference, and makes it difficult (if not impossible) for the other teams to compete, especially when those teams are very, very strong.

Here is how they do it: In our league, bringing back a player must be a bi-directional. In other words the parent must request that coach AND the coach must request the player. If not, the player is placed into the pool with the other players and will be put wherever. Consequently, these coaches don't request their lesser-skilled players be back. Instead they take their chances on a new player. After a few seasons of this, you've pretty much built a team of good atheletes, most of whom have played together for multiple seasons. Unfortunately, I did fall into this trap this season, and requested my players eligle for 8-9 year old back. However, that is only four kids (out of a team of 10). We'll see. I personally would not mind (maybe even prefer) if they did not allow players to be "requested". In past years I only requested one player---but this is what it is. Most youth tackle football teams here (in Texas). have drafts each season. At first I thought it was silly, but now I see there is some reasoning behind it.

[Coach Ray]

Hi guys!!

I posted on the site a while back (last year) when I coached my first flag football team. It was a great help just reading throught this thread.

This year, I'll be coaching 6-8 year olds with i9sports. Only one six year old on a nine man team.

I plan on playing the five dice defense (a 2-1-2 zone). My middle guy will rush most plays. He has to be seven yards off the LOS.

How far off the LOS should my front two guys be and how far back are my safeties?

How do I defend the middle when I rush? Seems it leaves it very open for center plays.

I use your tips on practicing pulling flags and getting in front of the runner and slowing him down. A great help!!

On offense is where I struggle.

I wish we could practice more but we are allowed only one practice per week and that is one hour prior to our games. Not much time to work on plays once you do the other things.

I like the idea of one formation for the plays (with another formation or two sprinkled in). It makes it easier on the kids and doesn't tip your plays. We ran the end around or reverse a lot last year and it was our bread and butter (pee wee division 4-6 yr olds).

How do I work on plays in practice so that they are ready for the plays in the game? I usually practice handoffs (end around type), center/QB exchange and just run a basic over the middle route and have someone throw the ball to them.

Would you recommend going with a set # of plays and giving the 'playbook' to each kids parents so they could work on things at home OR at least see them?

Also, what is easiest way during game to call plays (30 second clock) so that everyone knows where they are going? Do I have the playbook on the field and just show each person where they are and what they will do?

Should I run shotgun or just do a center/QB exchange? If the ball is dropped the play is dead.

I have seen a lot of the plays that Orange and Coach Rob have and plan on using the end around and short passes to move the ball.

Thanks for all the great posts here and for any help you guys might be able to provide!!

Coach Ray

[rushbuster70]

I hate to sound mean but crap man read some of the other threads...Me and Orange run a 2-1-2 and we've talked about it in other threads...

I personally prefer shotgun just because it gives more time due to the rush.Just make sure you practice it.

[Coach Rob]

How do I work on plays in practice so that they are ready for the plays in the game? I usually practice handoffs (end around type), center/QB exchange and just run a basic over the middle route and have someone throw the ball to them.

I'm thinking about having mini-games for this reason with 3 v 3 or 2 v 3 on a mini field. I spend at least 15-20 minutes working on plays in a mock scrimmage. Switch offense and defense. When you boil it down, flag football is made up of running plays and pulling flags.

Would you recommend going with a set # of plays and giving the 'playbook' to each kids parents so they could work on things at home OR at least see them?

I have several plays, but have learned that sometimes it's easier to only bring a few out on the field each time. Not a bad idea to hand them out to the kids.

Also, what is easiest way during game to call plays (30 second clock) so that everyone knows where they are going? Do I have the playbook on the field and just show each person where they are and what they will do?

Easiest way is to kneel down and have all the kids behind you (like my icon) and hold up the play so everyone can see it. My plays are color coded, so each kid is given a color and knows what to do.

Should I run shotgun or just do a center/QB exchange? If the ball is dropped the play is dead.

I use the shotgun a lot, but we allow time to practice that every week. It depends upon the QB and center, if I have kids that can't snap or handle a shotgun, we do a direct snap on that play.

CRob