439 replies to this topic

[Coach Ray]

Coach Rob

Appreciate the comments on my questions.

I'll incorporate your suggestions into what I do.

Like I said, offense is the most difficult part of the game to deal with. Very little time to work on plays and what they need to do with only one hour of practice each week (also we don't start our first practice until our first game, so no time to work on things for a couple of weeks or so before game one).

I try and have a couple of good QBs that I can depend on and then let everyone else play other positions (I'll sprinkle in another QB so my good QBs can carry the ball from time to time). I try and get as equal touches as possible.

It's just difficult to get the offense in sync early in the season.

Thanks again for the help!!

[Vegas Coach]

Coach Rob

Appreciate the comments on my questions.

I'll incorporate your suggestions into what I do.

Like I said, offense is the most difficult part of the game to deal with. Very little time to work on plays and what they need to do with only one hour of practice each week (also we don't start our first practice until our first game, so no time to work on things for a couple of weeks or so before game one).

I try and have a couple of good QBs that I can depend on and then let everyone else play other positions (I'll sprinkle in another QB so my good QBs can carry the ball from time to time). I try and get as equal touches as possible.

It's just difficult to get the offense in sync early in the season.

Thanks again for the help!!

Yes it is very difficult to get in sync early in the season with a whole new team and limited practices. With your limited time of practicing I would focus on the basics the first few weeks... meaning just run with about 8-10 plays max and get the kids running those 8-10 plays and perfecting those plays. Once you get a feel for your team more and you see that the kids are understanding the formations you have and limited plays you are running, I would then sprinkle in some shotgun plays or other new ones. To me... having 8 plays that all your kids execute and run very effective far out weighs having 15 plays where your kids run them half way through and dont really execute fully because of the lack of practice and emphasis. Trust me having all 5 kids confident knowing what to do, exploding off the line running their routes, taking hand offs on end arounds and your QB handling the ball well will go a long long way at these early ages, even if your "playbook" is only 8 plays!

[Orange]

How far off the LOS should my front two guys be and how far back are my safeties?

How do I defend the middle when I rush? Seems it leaves it very open for center plays.

At your age level I'm going to recommend that your corners play tighter in towards the middle and close to the los. The tendency of the kids is going to be to line up over the wideout, that's too far wide. You should have them line up over where a slot receiver would be. Believe me, the kids will almost always line up too wide so keep adjusting them in. From that position they should be able to help with runs and passes in the middle. It will look like you are vulnerable to the outside but you aren't because 6-8 year olds can't make that pass. You could be vulnerable to a quick sweep or reverse so make sure the corners know to watch for it, cut it off and force it back inside.

The safeties can line up about 7 yards back which is clearly marked for them by the rusher line.

Would you recommend going with a set # of plays and giving the 'playbook' to each kids parents so they could work on things at home OR at least see them?

I wouldn't. If your plays are simple enough then they should be able to pick it up during the practices and games. Remember they are 6-8 year olds trying to have fun.

Also, what is easiest way during game to call plays (30 second clock) so that everyone knows where they are going? Do I have the playbook on the field and just show each person where they are and what they will do?

Coach Rob is right on. Also, make sure you have an idea of the play you are going to call so you don't waste time and make sure your kids don't chatter. It also helps if they keep the same positions for each series.

Should I run shotgun or just do a center/QB exchange? If the ball is dropped the play is dead.

At your age level and limited practice I would absolutely not run shotgun. Use my surefire technique for snapping. Center holds ball between his legs and qb takes it from him. The center should not be trying to place it into the qbs hands and releasing it which is what they naturally do and results in dropped snaps. I tell my center that if the qb does not take the ball out of their hands they should hold it there indefinitely. Maybe later in the season with a lot of practice run shotgun.

I have seen a lot of the plays that Orange and Coach Rob have and plan on using the end around and short passes to move the ball.

Yes, at 6-8 run end arounds, drag passes and short crossing routes. Launch one every once in a while when you sucker them in.

[Coach Rob]

Coach Rob Like I said, offense is the most difficult part of the game to deal with. Very little time to work on plays and what they need to do with only one hour of practice each week (also we don't start our first practice until our first game,so no time to work on things for a couple of weeks or so before game one).

I'd have the kids show up 30 mintues early that first practice if possible. I'm sure the parents wouldn't mind if you explained your concerns. With only 1 hour to practice before the first game, maybe you run 10-15 minutes of flag pulling drills, 10-15 minutes of handoffs/pitches/snaps and the rest is running a scrimmage. I pair up the kids on the handoff/pitches/snaps and have them switch positions. By pairing them up, you get lots of reps.

Might have to keep the plays relatively simple the first game. Once you get that first game under your belt, you'll see what works and what needs work.

To me... having 8 plays that all your kids execute and run very effective far out weighs having 15 plays where your kids run them half way through and dont really execute fully because of the lack of practice and emphasis. Trust me having all 5 kids confident knowing what to do, exploding off the line running their routes, taking hand offs on end arounds and your QB handling the ball well will go a long long way at these early ages, even if your "playbook" is only 8 plays!

Great point!

CRob

[Coach Ray]

Hi guys!!

I'll apologize for the length and number of questions up front.

Played our 'jamboree' game today. It's with i9sports. We are 5 on 5 with a rusher seven yards (can be any number of rushers). Kids are age 6-8.

We gave up a 45 yard TD run on the first play but battled back and eventually lost the game 20-12. We struggled with flag pulling early on but then really settled down. We played a 2-1-2 zone defense and it seemed to work pretty well. I always rushed one defender. We batted down one pass and dropped what would have been and INT. We didn't get in front of the ball carrier like we had practiced which allowed the runners to run free sometimes as we were just grabbing for flags and not slowing the runner down.

Overall, on the defensive side of the ball I was fairly pleased for the first game (scrimmage).

Anyway, on to my problem and questions...

We struggled on offense. I mainly used Orange and Coach Rob plays. Mostly (90%) we ran the end around or a double reverse. We only threw the ball three times and we were not close to a completion on any of them. We scored once on the end around and another time on a double reverse.

The problem...I think this could be twofold.

One, we seem slow at performing the handoffs and being in the right place. How far behind the LOS do you typically have your QB hand the ball off on the end around? Also, do you have your QB 'go and meet the ball carrier OR does he wait for him'? We seemed to run into major problems with the rusher getting in the backfield (to the QBs flag before he could even hand off). Now two, I believe what contributed to this was the defense not playing by the rules. They played 3 guys on the line and 2 about 5 yards deep. One of the three on the LOS was right over center and seemed to rush every play. When my QB would go to make the handoff there would be three guys on him. Needless to say the handoffs did not go well, nor did the plays. I mentioned it to the ref and he said something to the other team but it didn't seem to do much good (he did penalize them twice for it- but could have done so every play - in my opinion).

Do you guys have this sort of problem on normal handoffs and on end arounds? Do you think it us being THAT slow getting the play going and not being in the right spots OR is it the defense not rushing by the rules? I'm leaning (hoping) that it is the rules. I intend on saying something to the league director. I felt that we even got more pressure on the QB than I expected. We did rush only one guys but it sure seemed we were closer than seven yards off the ball (more like five).

We play this same team next week in our first 'real' game. Do you guys have any suggestions on how to attack them (I mean, with the rush coming in so fast what play will burn them)? Again, I'm hoping it is not us being slow on plays and is a defensive rule not being applied correctly.

Coach Rob...this one is for you as it appears you have coached this age group for a year or two with i9. What plays (of yours) seem to give you the most success? Yours are a bit different than Orange's plays and I recall Orange saying his plays were designed for no rush league. Like I said earlier, we tried three pass plays and were not close to a completion. Two of them were center drag plays and my QB was just throwing the ball up as he had two or three guys hanging on him (we run three step center drag).

Also, on the end arounds how far out should the wideout be (from the center) when you lineup before the play is ran? Maybe I'm lining him up too wide.

I know it is one week and we'll get better. I've got some capable little guys and I just want them to have fun and be successful.

I appreciate any suggestions you guys might have for me.

Thanks!!!!!

Coach Ray

[Johnp2]

We struggled on offense. I mainly used Orange and Coach Rob plays.

Well, there's your problem right there. Ha!. I'M KIDDING!!! In all seriousness though, you should look to design a lot of your own plays (it's a LOT of fun, at least in my opinion). I'm sure as the season goes on, you'll start thinking to yourself about ways to tweak existing plays and/or create and run mainly your own.

How far behind the LOS do you typically have your QB hand the ball off on the end around? Also, do you have your QB 'go and meet the ball carrier OR does he wait for him'?

This was a staple play in my offense last season (and will be this season). The QB simply turns around (no need to drop-back more than a single step if at all). All the QB needs to do is hand the ball off, he does not need to go meet the ball carrier.

NOTE: Two important keys:
1) Timing. In other words if it will take the ball carrier 1.5 seconds to get to the QB, have your QB wait. A lot of times, the QB will turn IMMEDIATELY and WAIT for the ball carrier to get to him. That 1.5+ seconds is a dead giveway for the defense. I taught my son (depending on how far down the LOS the ball carrier is lined up) to hold the ball as if to pass and then at the last split second hand the ball off.

2). Ensure that the QB turns toward the ball carrier. In other words, if the ball carrier is running to the left to right, have your QB turn to his left.

Now two, I believe what contributed to this was the defense not playing by the rules. They played 3 guys on the line and 2 about 5 yards deep. One of the three on the LOS was right over center and seemed to rush every play. When my QB would go to make the handoff there would be three guys on him. Needless to say the handoffs did not go well, nor did the plays. I mentioned it to the ref and he said something to the other team but it didn't seem to do much good (he did penalize them twice for it- but could have done so every play - in my opinion).

My suggestion here---if the kids start blitzing (and are not allowed to) and the ref will not stop it, then have your OL block. I am unsure if blocking is allowed in your league (it is in mine), but if it is not allowed and this happens again---block. One of two things will happen: the ref will ignore it, and then you have a good ol' physical game on your hands, or the ref will stop it (along with the blitzing). I teach my kids to block very physically, focus on second-level blocking, and most importantly to finish their blocks. You'd be surprised how much pride they can take in it, and it keeps them all involved.

Do you guys have this sort of problem on normal handoffs and on end arounds? Do you think it us being THAT slow getting the play going and not being in the right spots OR is it the defense not rushing by the rules?

Honestly, I don't have a problem with hand-offs and end-arounds, and feel if you really focus on timing you won't either. Also try some mid-directions, and of course fake-hand offs are VERY effective. I'd say in about 70% of our running plays we have a fake hand-off. Yes, it does require extra work/focus, but it is an important aspect of the game to keep the defense on their heels.

Example for and end-around:
1. Have a RB line up directly behind the QB.
2. When the ball is snapped, have the RB run directly up the middle (to the left of the QB). The QB should turn and fake a hand-off to the RB (this will also hopefully take care of anyone rushing the middle).
3. Next the QB should turn more (so his back is to the LOS) and hand-off to the ball carrier coming on the end-around.
4. If you really want to polish the play, after your QB hands the ball of, have him roll-out in the opposite direction like he is going to pass. Believe me, it is the subtle things like this that will make a difference.

Also, on the end arounds how far out should the wideout be (from the center) when you lineup before the play is ran? Maybe I'm lining him up too wide.

There really is no "rule" here. In fact, different players up and down the LOS should take end-arounds. As mentioned, timing is everything. If you want to hand-off to a player lined up near the center, the QB turns faster than he would if you were giving it to a wide-out (who is lined up 20+ feet away from the QB). If you know it will take the ball carrier a little time to get to the QB, just have the QB take a step back as if to pass, and then as the ball carrier approaches, hand it off.

I hope this helps some. As mentioned, practice your timing. Mix in some fake hand-offs, and then practice your timing some more. :-) Let us know how you do!

[Johnp2]

One more thing to add---end-arounds a GREAT set-up plays. Attached is a play you should try after running the end-around a few times. I usually run the end-around twice in a row, then a few plays later run it once, then run the attached play.

Again, I hope this helps you some.

Attached Files

•  Example_Setup.doc   27K   119 downloads

[Orange]

When we switched to I-9 I could tell that the speed of the rush was going to require tweaking of our end arounds. What we ended up doing was to run it to our slot receivers instead of our wideouts. Since they started closer to the qb, they could take the handoff before the rusher got there. This year we're going to go back to using the wideout but send him in motion so that he's almost there when the ball is snapped. Last year I didn't feel that my team was old enough to use motion well enough but I do this year (9 year olds).

In my opinion you have this team on the ropes. They are so eager to shut down your end around they can taste it. So, you run a fake end around to the slot receiver and immediately run a center drag the other way. He has to be wide open. When we played 8 & under we'd run that center drag over and over in practice. Stand on the defensive side and make sure the fake end around looks good (sell it as Johnp suggests). Then make sure the center and qb drag a good 7 yards down the los before the throw. Honestly, you have to be able to make that pass and catch, it's the easiest one in the book.

Another thing that we would do is practice the handoff exchanges over and over. I emphasized speed and accuracy. I'd line them up in a line and hand the ball off over and over. If they jogged or ran slowly I'd be all over them. The receiver has to come fast and flying when he takes that handoff.

Question: Can the defense rush on a fake handoff? If not only the rusher, 7 yards back can cross the los until there is an exchange. I would have a serious talk with the referee before the game and explain your exprience this week and your concern for the game. In our league the ref marks the 7 yards each down with a bean bag. I disagree with Johnp, blocking is certainly not the way to counter them disobeying the rules. But there is no reason why you should not insist that they stick with the rules.

[Coach Ray]

Thanks Orange and Johnp.

I'll try and incorporate your suggestions.

I like the motion idea. I hadn't thought of it. I did think of moving the end around handoff from receiver to slot guy given the rush issue.

I do plan on having a talk with the director tomorrow AND with the ref prior to the game.

Honestly, we had zero chance of getting anything going on Saturday due to this rush.

Coach Rob...hope you can respond to my prior email with your thoughts.

Anyone else can chime in as well.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks!!

[Coach Rob]

Coach Rob...this one is for you as it appears you have coached this age group for a year or two with i9. What plays (of yours) seem to give you the most success? Yours are a bit different than Orange's plays and I recall Orange saying his plays were designed for no rush league. Like I said earlier, we tried three pass plays and were not close to a completion. Two of them were center drag plays and my QB was just throwing the ball up as he had two or three guys hanging on him (we run three step center drag).

Johnp2 has a point, coming up with some of your own plays might help a bit. Maybe you need to tweak some of ours with your own spin to make them work for you.

Our best success has been misdirection plays. Orange is right, run a fake end around, then throw the center drag or center slant. In our league the QB can run at anytime. So I'll set up a QB keeper by running an end around on the first play, then turn around using the same kids with a fake end around and run a QB keeper the following play. I'm constantly running plays that set up the next play with both plays looking similar, but adding a twist/misdirection to the 2nd play.

One last thought, you'll start getting a feel for which kids to run on certain plays. I know who my best receivers are, who can handle a reverse, who can handle a long pass, etc. You may need to use 30 minutes of scrimmage time next practice to get your kids used to the plays. Wouldn't sweat the first game too much.

CRob

[Coach Rob]

Won our first game today 16-14, tough battle. The new "unwritten rule" of every player receiving two ball touches per half makes things interesting. All our kids received pretty equal ball touches. No one was left out a few had 2, most received 3 and a few 4. It really adds a whole new dimension when you track ball touches and make adjustments on the fly. I'm almost to the point where I need to assign specific plays to specific kids to satisfy the ball touch requirement but still remain competitive in the game.

CRob

[rushbuster70]

So Just wanted to give an update for the indoor flag league I'm coaching.

So far this has been my best season.

We are 5-0 with our closest game being 19-8.We've scored 114 and only given up 35 points.We blow out most teams but the fact of the matter is all my guys get 3-4 touches a game and I made all the players interchangable.So we run the same play with different guys.The kids have picked it up great.I have a couple guys that dont know anything but 100% which is great at the beginning of the game but not so good at the end haha...

Anyways though definitely my best season and I expect to finish up 8-0.The only thing that stinks is my former assistant coaches in the league and we have blown them out twice like everyone else and he was pretty pissed about it lol...

So far so good though.I'm glad with the kids progress.I have one kid who is going to be on my i9 team so this works great for him already learning the offense.

[Johnp2]

This year we're going to go back to using the wideout but send him in motion so that he's almost there when the ball is snapped. Last year I didn't feel that my team was old enough to use motion well enough but I do this year (9 year olds).

I'm assuming the player in motion must set before the ball is snapped? We used a little motion last year (on a few wham plays), but I, like you, might incorporate it a little more--although I'll just call it based on how the defense is lined up at the LOS.

I disagree with Johnp, blocking is certainly not the way to counter them disobeying the rules. But there is no reason why you should not insist that they stick with the rules.

Please don't misunderstand--I'm certainly not advocating turning it into a dirty game--nor do I feel two wrongs make a right. However if the other team is flagrently breaking the rules, and the referee chooses to allow it---well then that is how the game is--you simply have to adapt . . at least I would. As an example, if I played a team and they rushed all of their players from the LOS at every snap (which is against our rules), and the ref allowed it---you better believe we will be coming full throttle when we are on defense doing the same thing. This was one of the disappointing aspects to our league this year, the officiating. It was so bad, two of them were actually relieved of their duties mid-way through the season. I am not talking about missing calls or anything like that, but simply not knowing the rules. In about half of our games, during the coin toss the ref would ask about our rules, "Can the QB run? What sort of pass rush is allowed? etc." So if a ref allows a pass rush that is outside of the rules, he should allow blocking that is outside of the rules---game on!

[rushbuster70]

So after much debate on deciding to refereeing I'm still going to be coaching...

I'm still refereeing but I have a couple kids that I think can turn out pretty well so we will definitely see how they do.I'm excited to get started.Next Tuesday will be our first practice.

Basically I'll be refereeing the other days except for Sat afternoons that way I'm able to coach our games.

I just cant stay away lol

[DPK]

Lot's of great info. Many thanks to all of you.

We are 5 v 5, 10-12 year olds, 7 yd rush line, QB can run.

I read many articles on defense, but the one thing I haven't found is a playbook for the defense. Does anybody have one? I need specific info on zone coverages, when to release out of a zone, how to cover deep,... Thanks.