17 replies to this topic

[Johnp2]

I'd like you get you gentleman's opinion on "trick plays." I am not talking about reverses, and flea-flickers, etc., but the completely unorthodox trick plays.

As an example, "Wrong Ball", "Lost Man", etc. If you are unfamliar with these-type plays, below is a quick scenario:

1. Team lines up to LOS.
2. QB "taps" Center on rear.
3. QB turns to coach (me) and says (loudly), "What is the play?"
4. During this time, the Center slowly snaps the ball and stands up, with the rest of the players standing up looking confused.
5. The QB (with ball in hand) continues walking toward me, "Coach, what play is this again?"
6. At the last moment (when he is outside the line), he hands off to a player, who sprints (hopefully) for a TD.

I had not considered this, until . . . it turns out (from hearing parents on my team) that there is a team in our league that is very good. The coach has had the same players for many years now and has like four "assistants". Two of my players defected from his team as they did not like his approach. So far this is fine. However, it turns out this coach likes to really run up the score on teams, and apperantely is at it again this season. I am not one to run up the score, but at the same time believe that if you don't like it, then do something about it.

So . . . with that, if I find myself playing this team (three games from now) and they are that good to where they are putting a whipping on us and the head coach keeps his foot on our throats (perhaps extra due to the players that left his team), I really might consider doing a "trick" play like this just to put him in his place a little.

My question:

Do you consider these plays unethical? Personally, if a team did it to me, I am the type that would laugh and think, "Ok, you got us." As mentioned, I would only consider doing this if the situation calls for it. I've asked a lot of people I know for their thoughts, and have answers ranging from "Nah, that's just wrong" to, "Wow. That would be incredible to see. I bet the kids and parents would all get a kick out of that--you should do it!"

Thanks

[Johnp2]

I'll also add, that if I were to implement this, I would discuss it with the referee first so he ensures what we are doing is legal (and the one I have in mind is legal, but he might miss it).

[HornFan]

We actually have a play called "silent count" though it's not as "tricky" as your play it's similar.

At the age of our players (6-8), the "Down, Set, Hike" cadence is used on every play. But when we call the silent count play, the QB will be silent and do the butt tap, the center will do a slow hike, and the QB will hand the ball back to the center - but around to side, not throguh the legs. Since that is a legal hand off the center then takes off like a rocket leaving the defense somewhat confused. Since it happens so fast the defense usually catches on and gives chase, and sometimes catches the center with the ball, but sometimes not!

I would say if you are pretty far down, then anything goes and I too would congradulate you on your creativity and use that as a great training tool for my team to understand "A play is live until the ref whisltes!"

[Johnp2]

Update: We have been trying two "trick" plays in practice. One is "Coach, I forgot the play" (which I outlined in the first post of this topic), and another one, which is called "Who has the ball?"

1. As soon as the ball is snapped ALL 8 players turn their backs to the defense and get in a tight huddle.
2. The QB stays low (so no one can see him) and stealthly hands the ball to one of the players in the huddle.
3. ALL players then turn and run acting like they have the ball (but of course only one of them does).

We have not tried this in a game, but it looks confusing on defense when we practice it. Even if we only pick up a few yards, it's still a fun play and the kids LOVE it. Our league gives five seconds before you can rush, so we're working on beating that time. Even if the team does rush, they won't know who has the ball. This one does not seem as deceiving as "Coach, I forgot the play", so will probably try this in our next game. I'm saving "Coach, I forgot the play" ONLY if a team gets up 40+ points on us---then the gloves come off. ;-)

[rushbuster70]

1. As soon as the ball is snapped ALL 8 players turn their backs to the defense and get in a tight huddle.
2. The QB stays low (so no one can see him) and stealthly hands the ball to one of the players in the huddle.
3. ALL players then turn and run acting like they have the ball (but of course only one of them does).

We have not tried this in a game, but it looks confusing on defense when we practice it.

A team did this against us and it did nothing against us.They ran it twice and we shut it down both times...It can work but make sure an outside guy gets the ball to try and break it outside

[Johnp2]

I think this one will take quite a few reps to implement it correctly. We have three practices until our game next week, so figure if we can run it 10-15 times they will execute it correctly.

First I will give it to our fastest player (that is a no-brainer). I'll position him in the 10 o'clock position in the "huddle". Ideally I would like the players flanked to his right and left to get an earlier jump out of the huddle (maybe a step, step and a half in front of him). I think this will do two things: 1. Shed the ball for that extra second from the defenders, and 2: Give him some protection in the event it is sniffed out immediately. As you mentioned, I think outside is the way to go here.

I think the biggest key, however, is for ALL the kids (including the QB) to break the huddle and run as if they have the ball in their hands. The first time we practiced it, they did not do that. After I explained to them to simply hold cross their arms near their guts like they have the ball, on the next play I even got confused as to who had it. I'm not looking for this to be a home run play, but if we can pick up 5-10 yards, that would be nice.

Of course it might get shut down, but we'll have fun with it anyway. ;-)

[rushbuster70]

I think this one will take quite a few reps to implement it correctly. We have three practices until our game next week, so figure if we can run it 10-15 times they will execute it correctly.

First I will give it to our fastest player (that is a no-brainer). I'll position him in the 10 o'clock position in the "huddle". Ideally I would like the players flanked to his right and left to get an earlier jump out of the huddle (maybe a step, step and a half in front of him). I think this will do two things: 1. Shed the ball for that extra second from the defenders, and 2: Give him some protection in the event it is sniffed out immediately. As you mentioned, I think outside is the way to go here.

I think the biggest key, however, is for ALL the kids (including the QB) to break the huddle and run as if they have the ball in their hands. The first time we practiced it, they did not do that. After I explained to them to simply hold cross their arms near their guts like they have the ball, on the next play I even got confused as to who had it. I'm not looking for this to be a home run play, but if we can pick up 5-10 yards, that would be nice.

Of course it might get shut down, but we'll have fun with it anyway. ;-)

Yea it may work...But all in all its a fun play for the kids...For that defense I'd run a scout team defense for your offense.We always run scout defense & scout offense for our teams so they can be prepared for the following team...Good luck though.Let us know how it goes.

[Johnp2]

Yea, we have 12 players on the team, 8 in the game. We are lucky to have all players at practice at once, so I've developed a taxi-squad that consists of my players' siblings who attend practice. Some of them are older (10-11) and some are younger (4-5) for defense. They all love it!

We focus mostly on offense, as I'm trusting the kids more and more on defense. We shut out our first opponent, and held our second opponent (who is averging 47 points per game) to 20

We are PROUDLY the underdogs in our league, and I'm getting the kids prepped to "keep fighting and never give up". I made a homework assignment for them to watch the movie "Rocky" during our bye week. We had some players over here watching it, and I was unsure how much they would like it (as compared with Spongebob), but they all LOVED the movie. We talked and talked about how everyone loves Rocky because he was not afraid and always did his best. ;-)

Thanks again for your insight. I've searched and searched, and this is the best place on the Internet to discuss flag football coaching.

[Orange]

The old "coach, I forgot the play" play is an old powder puff standby. I think its fine to run but you will only have one shot at it so make it count. Also, make sure your qb does not say anything that might indicate he's calling for a timeout or play stoppage. Another version of it has the qb telling the coach that they have the wrong ball. He says something like, "hey coach this is the wrong ball." and then says to the center, "give that to me." The center casually snaps it and the qb walks towards the sidelines with the ball. If your qb can't run he can toss it to another player who runs towards the coach then cuts up field.

[HornFan]

The old "coach, I forgot the play" play is an old powder puff standby. I think its fine to run but you will only have one shot at it so make it count. Also, make sure your qb does not say anything that might indicate he's calling for a timeout or play stoppage. Another version of it has the qb telling the coach that they have the wrong ball. He says something like, "hey coach this is the wrong ball." and then says to the center, "give that to me." The center casually snaps it and the qb walks towards the sidelines with the ball. If your qb can't run he can toss it to another player who runs towards the coach then cuts up field.

I've seen this play used in Tackle football, middle school I think.

In fact this reminds me of the play we did when I was in Junior High and playing a receiver. This of course works with larger teams (11 is best, but 8 might work), and a good passing QB. During the huddle send one player to the sidelines, but have him stop just before going out of bounds (or step in just before the snap - depending on league rules). Line up like normal, the Defense will likely not notice the sole player just on the edge of the field near the other players (or parents). Snap the ball and immediately throw to the sideline player, he'll have a clear shot to the end zone, and again this will only work once.

HF

[Orange]

A lot of times in flag football, especially little kids flag they frown upon the sideline play. I've seen it specifically prohibited in more than one rulebook. Typically you have to report into the huddle and break from it (at the same time as the others) to be eligible. Check your local rules to see if this is something you can or cannot do.

[Orange]

A trick play you can use is the handoff back to the center. This works well if the defense does not place a defender over him. The qb takes the snap and the center immediately stands up, arms back as the qb slips him the ball. The qb then rolls out with his body turned so they can't see he does not have the ball. If the qb is good at selling it the center can usually take off for a solid run. We had this play used against us in the I-9 tournament and it worked well until we started watching for it.

[Johnp2]

The old "coach, I forgot the play" play is an old powder puff standby. I think its fine to run but you will only have one shot at it so make it count. Also, make sure your qb does not say anything that might indicate he's calling for a timeout or play stoppage. Another version of it has the qb telling the coach that they have the wrong ball. He says something like, "hey coach this is the wrong ball." and then says to the center, "give that to me." The center casually snaps it and the qb walks towards the sidelines with the ball. If your qb can't run he can toss it to another player who runs towards the coach then cuts up field.

Our QB (my son) is well prepped for it. It's his favorite play ha ha! I'm also impressed at how stealthly our Center snaps the ball to him. If we wanted to be REALLY sly, I would have the Center hand him the ball from the side (our league does not mandate that the Center snap the ball between his legs), so it is totally legal---in fact I saw a team do that on every play last week (and they even did it from the shot-gun, where the Center just "pictches" the ball to the Center. It was the most odd looking thing I've ever seen. Of course, the QB dropped about a 1/3 of them, so am unsure what the coach was thinking especially since you have five seconds before the defense can rush.

You are correct, this play is my "twist" on Wrong Ball. However, two things: 1. A lot of people know "wrong ball", so don't want to tip my hand. I think at this age it's more likely for a player to "forget the play". 2. We have a "game ball" that must be used, so saying "wrong ball coach" would not be much sense.

There is nothing in our rule book that prohibits this play---HOWEVER, I've learned I know the rule book better than the refs (which is a little concerning, but we never argue), thus I will give the ref a heads up on what we are doing when/if we run the play.

Also regarding handing off to the Center, I would love to do that, but the Center cannot take hand-offs in our league. ;-(
BUT . . . we can block, so I like that better ;-)

Thanks!

[Kevin K]

We run a simple play, a run up the middle. The play usually get stopped for a short gain. I will yell at the team, loudly so the other team can hear ,(without a huddle) " Do that play again until you get it right". Then instead of the same play they will run a play action pass to the receiver. All the kids on the other team always run right to the middle expecting the same play, leaving the outside wide open. We have scored a TD every time we try this.

[rushbuster70]

I have a good trick play that i'll try and throw up when I have it drawn up in Word....