Jump to content


Coaching Youth Fooball - Football Plays
Photo

Run Plays With No Lead Blocking?


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 AsianChexMix

AsianChexMix

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 29 November 2009 - 08:00 PM

I'm assuming that it would be all misdirection plays (reverses, double reverses, Wildcat, etc) but if we wanted our standard I formation RB sweep or PA QB Sweep, how would you give blocking if there are no lead blocking? I mean would the defender just run to their spot, stand still and then run again and stand still? This is 7 v 7 flag football no contact with girls.


#2 Texas_D_Coach

Texas_D_Coach

    MVP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 325 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Texas

Posted 04 December 2009 - 07:55 PM

I'm assuming that it would be all misdirection plays (reverses, double reverses, Wildcat, etc) but if we wanted our standard I formation RB sweep or PA QB Sweep, how would you give blocking if there are no lead blocking? I mean would the defender just run to their spot, stand still and then run again and stand still? This is 7 v 7 flag football no contact with girls.

Chex,
I really think it's going to depend on the rules in your league. From listening to other coaches (like JohnP) who plays in a blocking league, it sounds like they are allowed to use their hands somewhat to block, while other leagues I've heard of only allow very limited blocking (more like a pick play in basketball than a block).

In the league I coach in we cannot block at all (can't even run an intentional pick play for that matter (once the ball passes the LOS all players without the ball must stop their motion).

Maybe have a look at your rules and clarify what your league allows and then we can come up with more ideas for you.

#3 AsianChexMix

AsianChexMix

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 05 December 2009 - 08:35 AM

Wow...I totally didn't realize I didn't post the rules. Sorry. Since we are playing with girls, there is no contact allowed (screen blocking) but also there is no lead blocking either. So the player can run but then has to stop if they are blocking. I was just wondering, is this all about misdirection then? How would you just do a simple sweep? Thanks!

#4 Texas_D_Coach

Texas_D_Coach

    MVP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 325 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Texas

Posted 07 December 2009 - 01:58 PM

Wow...I totally didn't realize I didn't post the rules. Sorry. Since we are playing with girls, there is no contact allowed (screen blocking) but also there is no lead blocking either. So the player can run but then has to stop if they are blocking. I was just wondering, is this all about misdirection then? How would you just do a simple sweep? Thanks!


Sounds very similar to our league. The key to running in this kind of league is...misdirection, misdirection, misdirection.

Take a look at my playbook in the playbook forum. You'll see that all of my running plays incorporate either a misdirection or a fake or both.

To run effectively in these leauges you've got to get the defense going the wrong direction, and then bust it the other way (unless you've got some amazing athletes who can just flat outrun people).

One of my favorite run plays is to bring a WR on an end around, and then fake it to the RB going the other way. It's in my playbook too.

#5 AsianChexMix

AsianChexMix

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 07 December 2009 - 06:08 PM

Sounds very similar to our league. The key to running in this kind of league is...misdirection, misdirection, misdirection.

Take a look at my playbook in the playbook forum. You'll see that all of my running plays incorporate either a misdirection or a fake or both.

To run effectively in these leauges you've got to get the defense going the wrong direction, and then bust it the other way (unless you've got some amazing athletes who can just flat outrun people).

One of my favorite run plays is to bring a WR on an end around, and then fake it to the RB going the other way. It's in my playbook too.


I like your "pick your poison" play. It's basically an option for QB to either give delayed handoff to RB or pass it to WRs getting open. How would you teach that to offense? Just have RB prepared to get the snap at any moment? Couldn't you also use a fake handoff as well if defense has seen you pull it off then have him/her go be dump receiver?

As for what I wanted to do with my girls, I think a further explanation of the rules will be needed. It's 7v7 no contact with no lead blocking. We must have three offensive lineman but one is eligible to catch (basically, acting TE). Four must be lined up on LOS and QB can run. Initially, I wanted to run a true Wildcat offense like Miami Dolphins does but only issue is our fastest person acting as QB can't throw (or catch for that matter). Here is what I'm thinking of doing.

1. Staying in I Formation about 90-95% of the time. Reasoning is two fold, simplicity and slight advantage against defense since they don't know what to expect.

2. Motion a WR pre-snap towards QB. At snap, I had two scenarios. One is QB hands off to RB and as RB is running (say right), the WR would be running left and she would then hand off the ball or fake it and keep running. Second is where QB can fake hand off to RB from get go and then hand off to WR. I'd assume it would create misdirection for a second as the defense is trying to figure out who has the ball. Initially, second option seems as if the RB would have to slow down because of the WR coming right in front of her. I'm thinking which would be the best to implement.

3. If I did Miami Wildcat, if our RB or sweeping WR is unable to throw, only option would then to have a QB line up as WR and we'd have to pitch it back to her to throw? I saw this done with Miami.

4. How effective can it truly be against a rush without contact and lead blocking? I'm assuming rush would be hard and the key to all this movement.

Thanks for the help!

#6 Texas_D_Coach

Texas_D_Coach

    MVP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 325 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Texas

Posted 09 December 2009 - 12:22 PM

I like your "pick your poison" play. It's basically an option for QB to either give delayed handoff to RB or pass it to WRs getting open. How would you teach that to offense? Just have RB prepared to get the snap at any moment? Couldn't you also use a fake handoff as well if defense has seen you pull it off then have him/her go be dump receiver?

As for what I wanted to do with my girls, I think a further explanation of the rules will be needed. It's 7v7 no contact with no lead blocking. We must have three offensive lineman but one is eligible to catch (basically, acting TE). Four must be lined up on LOS and QB can run. Initially, I wanted to run a true Wildcat offense like Miami Dolphins does but only issue is our fastest person acting as QB can't throw (or catch for that matter). Here is what I'm thinking of doing.

1. Staying in I Formation about 90-95% of the time. Reasoning is two fold, simplicity and slight advantage against defense since they don't know what to expect.

2. Motion a WR pre-snap towards QB. At snap, I had two scenarios. One is QB hands off to RB and as RB is running (say right), the WR would be running left and she would then hand off the ball or fake it and keep running. Second is where QB can fake hand off to RB from get go and then hand off to WR. I'd assume it would create misdirection for a second as the defense is trying to figure out who has the ball. Initially, second option seems as if the RB would have to slow down because of the WR coming right in front of her. I'm thinking which would be the best to implement.

3. If I did Miami Wildcat, if our RB or sweeping WR is unable to throw, only option would then to have a QB line up as WR and we'd have to pitch it back to her to throw? I saw this done with Miami.

4. How effective can it truly be against a rush without contact and lead blocking? I'm assuming rush would be hard and the key to all this movement.

Thanks for the help!

On the pick your poison play, I don't have the RB stay in the backfield. Basically he delays just long enough for the WR in motion to get the handoff and then the QB does a fake handoff to the RB. Look at this video at 0:40 into it you will see a very similar play, except on this play we do the opposite, and fake to the WR in motion and hand off to the RB. In my playbook the dotted line person is who gets the ball. You can see how the "Pick Your Poison" and "GreenGhost" plays work off of one another. The first play sets up the second, and vise versa.Most of the time I do not throw out of the "Pick Your Poison" play, but just have the runner run the end around. If I notice that the defense is cheating up on the end around though, I'll put WR who can throw in motion, and have him launch the ball deep behind the shallow DB's for a long gain.

You can see that being successfull is not just about having a good playbook, but also using what will work against what the defense is doing...

Another caveat, is you have to tailor your playbook and how you run certain plays to the talent you have.

Initially, I wanted to run a true Wildcat offense like Miami Dolphins does but only issue is our fastest person acting as QB can't throw (or catch for that matter).


Remember, just because they are lined up as QB doesn't mean they have to be able to throw. I don't think Ronnie Brown or Ricky Williams can probably throw very good eitherPosted Image , but they sure run the Wildcat well. My point is you can move your players around as much as you want. Use different QB's for running and passing plays if necessary.

  • I am going out on a limb here because I don't coach 7 v 7, but I would think using the I formation in flag football would be a bad idea. I think the best way to expose a defense is to spread them out and force them to cover the whole field. If you have everyone bunched together at the line it will make it easier to defend.
  • This sounds like a slight variation of the reverese, where RB is involved instead of 2 WR's. This could work, but remember sometimes the fake works vbetter than the real thing. Try to set up plays with other plays to trick the defense. For instance run the reverse on the first play, then run the exact same play again, except fake the reverse and run. You will find that setting up plays like that often causes the misdirection to work much better.
  • That could work. Let your best runners run and your best throwers throw. Wildcat to me means a direct snap to the RB who runs quickly to catch the defense off guard. If you're having your RB throw then it's not a wildcat, but a QB run/pass option.
  • Running the ball can be very effective with no contact and no lead blocking, but you have to set it up right. It's way different than tackle football where you just line up and knock people off the ball. In flag football you have to use misdirection, fakes, and play action pass to your advantage. The more you can keep the defense guessing on each play the better off you will be.
I hope this helps. Good Luck!!

#7 AsianChexMix

AsianChexMix

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 09 December 2009 - 01:40 PM

Remember, just because they are lined up as QB doesn't mean they have to be able to throw. I don't think Ronnie Brown or Ricky Williams can probably throw very good eitherPosted Image , but they sure run the Wildcat well. My point is you can move your players around as much as you want. Use different QB's for running and passing plays if necessary.

I am going out on a limb here because I don't coach 7 v 7, but I would think using the I formation in flag football would be a bad idea. I think the best way to expose a defense is to spread them out and force them to cover the whole field. If you have everyone bunched together at the line it will make it easier to defend.


Well since we have to have three linemen at all times, that only allows us to move four players around which I think would be 3 WR/RBs and a QB. I was thinking of staying in I Formation as it provides balance and keeps it easy for our girls to remember formations.

This sounds like a slight variation of the reverse, where RB is involved instead of 2 WR's. This could work, but remember sometimes the fake works better than the real thing. Try to set up plays with other plays to trick the defense. For instance run the reverse on the first play, then run the exact same play again, except fake the reverse and run. You will find that setting up plays like that often causes the misdirection to work much better.


Well, that was what I was planning to do. For example, I'd have two plays that would look COMPLETELY the same except it's a different runner. One play would be that pre-snap motion of WR towards QB and then the QB would fake it to the WR and have RB go opposite direction. The same variant would be to fake to RB and go to WR. I think the key is to have the QB, WR and RB bunched up so that it's hard to see where the ball got handed off to. That's what I was thinking along those lines.

That could work. Let your best runners run and your best throwers throw. Wildcat to me means a direct snap to the RB who runs quickly to catch the defense off guard. If you're having your RB throw then it's not a wildcat, but a QB run/pass option.


Right. I'm thinking Wildcat formation would have two runners, stealer (WR in motion) or the RB herself. I was thinking if it would be possible to do what they did with Pennington and lining him up as QB and having the stealer pitch and throw it downfield.

Running the ball can be very effective with no contact and no lead blocking, but you have to set it up right. It's way different than tackle football where you just line up and knock people off the ball. In flag football you have to use misdirection, fakes, and play action pass to your advantage. The more you can keep the defense guessing on each play the better off you will be.[/list]I hope this helps. Good Luck!!


I think especially for girls flag football, especially since girls aren't known for arm strength, it's all about run and misdirection. Fortunately, we have a girl who has a really good arm but the tournament we played in had 15-20 mph winds. Even the guys were having issues throwing it. Our playbook consisted of two runs and it really hindered us.