6 replies to this topic

[Jamie]

My son is 8 years old and is in his first year of football. Most of the team is 9 and 10 year olds who are not only more mature but have 1 or 2 years of experience already. The problem I have is that most of the 9 and 10 year olds play and the 8 year olds (about 5 on the team) play about 3 or 4 plays within a game or scrimmage. I have the impression that the coaches are focusing more on winning and less about developing all the athletes. The side-effect is the kid’s moral are very low and want to quit - they are not having fun because they do not get to play.

At this age, my philosophy would be to play all kids near equal amounts. Shift the focus from winning to creating a fun environment were all the kids can develop their football skills. Does anyone agree or disagree, why or why not?

My son is also involved in hockey where all the kids play equal amounts and each line they play against in games are against kids with the same skill level. In tournaments, where the lines are not set by skill, the coach did an excellent job at intermixing skill levels to provide balance and give all kids the same amount of playing time. The result was that his skills greatly improved and he had a lot of fun throughout the season. Why can't we develop a similar system for youth football? How about eliminating first string and second string concepts? Instead intermix skilled and not yet skilled kids into a team 1 and team 2 concepts. Team 1 and Team 2 alternate equally throughout the entire game.

The coaches are always emphasizing the importance of having fun, but they are not creating an environment where this is feasible for all athletes. This sends mixed messages to the kids (who are not playing) because they are not having fun due to the coaches are focusing on winning instead of giving these children the opportunity to play and have fun.

I am curious what others think about this topic.

[all74gators]

Wow, did you open a HUGE can of worms! I think the biggest problem with your scenario is that you have a HUGE age range for youth football. There is a big difference in an 8 year old and a 10 year old. The size alone can make a big difference. I wouldn't want my 8 year old in his first year of football playing against 10 year olds who have 2 years of experience. I think that is asking for injuries. I, personally, would be looking for a league that evened out the playing age a little more. Our league has each age group separately, 6 and 7 year olds are the only ones that used to be combined but they were separated this year.

Now, on to the controversial topic. I truly believe that at any age in football you have to put your best players on the field for game time. It's not always for the simple fact of winning. Football is not a sport that you can let everyone get equal playing time. Everyone that plays at game time has to be capable of doing their job, both mentally and physically because chances are, the other team that you are playing are also putting their biggest, strongest and more experienced players on the field. When you start putting kids on the field that aren't ready to play that position, whether it be mentally or physically, they can get themselves, and others injured. Football is a sport that you really rely on everyone to do their job for things to happen right. It's all about the big picture. In baseball, someone can strike out or miss a fly ball and it doesn't physically hurt anyone. In football, you miss a block and your quarterback can be taken out, and possibly injured.

On the other hand, I think that every child on the team should get equal opportunity to learn. No one should be left out during practices. There should be plenty of coaches to work with all of the players. Then, especially in your situation, when your son is the 9 or 10 years old, he will be the one playing, while the parents of the 8 year olds will be asking the same question. The boys that are 9/10 now, probably didn't play when they were 8 either. Just something to think about, our son was once the 6 year old who didn't see much playing time, (yes, it was frustrating). The next year he was a starter on offense and defense, he just had to wait his turn and use that first year to soak up all of the knowledge that he could, so that he could have his time.

I hope that this helps to shed some light on your situation and see it from a different point of view. I do know that there are some instructional football leagues out there, you just have to find them. Just make sure that it is the entire league that is instructional, not just the coach, otherwise, you would be back into the whole injury issue again.

[all74gators]

I just re-read your post and wanted to touch on one more thing that you said. You said that the side-effect is that the moral of the kids is low, they aren't having any fun, and they want to quit. This question is NOT in any way directed at you, I just want you to think about it... Are you sure that the kids are truly feeling that way, or are they following their parents lead to feel that way?

The reason that I ask this is because my wife originally felt the same way when our son was the younger, less experienced player. We found that our son was "feeding" off of her emotions, and going along with it. When we sat down and talked to him about it, we found out that he really was having fun, and was learning a lot in practice, and was ok with his few token plays a game. He knew that he was going to be the older one the next year. Too often, I think kids follow their parent's lead, and they are much smarter and hear much more than we think. Maybe, if the parents focused on the positive and gave them something to look forward to as a 9/10 year old, things might be a little different. Just something to think about!

[mlbryant]

In a competitive league, the coach is in a catch 22. In our league, there is a championship game played in the stadium of a Division I NCAA school; in other words a really big deal for the kids. There are 15 teams competing for 2 spots for this game. So here is the catch:

Team Goal [a] - Winning isn't Everything - Tell the kids winning isn't important and all kids play equally. We are here to have fun and learn. Parents of kids with little ability want this and will confront you if you choose team goal [b]. This goal is more than fair to kids that have little or no ability, but is it fair for the kids that have the most ability in the league?

Team Goal [b] - We play for Championships - We are going to play the kids we need to play in order to win. All kids will get a minimum number of plays, but the kids that put out the most and show the most ability get to play more. Parents of kids with loads of ability want this and will confront you if you choose team goal [a]. This goal is most fair to the kids that have ability because it gives them the best chance to play in the reward game.

I, personally, adopt the team goal [b] for a couple of reasons, but I have been on both sides of the argument. My oldest son is much better at hockey than football and was usually a minimum play player. I wish he would have had better abilities, but the fact of the matter is that he didn't. He did get to play in the championship game twice in 5 years. My youngest son, though a little small and just above average speed has an uncanny ability to avoid tackles and gain yards (maybe one time in ten does he fail to get atleast 4 yards on a carry). So I can feel for both types of parents. I have a team this year that has probably the most individual talent of any team in the league. I cannot tell these boys that their talent, their work, and their heart are meaningless (e.g. everyone plays equal regardless of ability, work, or dedication).

Kids are very perceptive. The good kids with strong abilities will become very frustrated and quit trying on a [a] team. Kids with little ability could adopt a similar quitting attitude on a [b] team, but if coached and encouraged properly, they could find reward in their efforts.

If the question is one more of team moral, can a team that loses regularly really have high moral just because everyone plays the same? I'll bet the kids with above average ability will snap at the weaker kids (whether or not on the football field) and may even hit extra hard in drills.
Just my two cents, I'll get off the soap box now.

[Jamie]

Thank you for the feedback.

Just put yourself in the beginners shoes for a moment. Imaging yourself practicing day in and day out, running, doing drills in the hot sun. Now game day is here. All that hard work is going to pay off. You are talking to your parents that morning about playing in the big game, what you are going to do during the game. You get to the field, you warm up with the entire team, you get your name announced and run onto the field. You are excited and cant wait to play. Your parents are in the stands waiting to see their son play. Now you stand on the sidelines watching other kids play almost the entire half (20 minutes have passed). You finally get to go in and you run onto the field, full of excitement and ambition. You play two plays and then taken out. Half time passes and the same cycle occurs. You sit there watching other kids play and you play 2 plays then the game is ended. The coaches talk after the game was focused on how much fun that was. Did you have fun? You turn to your parents after the game and say how can I have fun if I only played 4 plays, I hate football. Ask yourself, as a coach, was the win 8 to 6 worth destroying this childs confidence and perception for the game of football?

Every single youth sport I have been around has said that having fun is most important for young atheletes. I have a degree in Athletic Coaching and all the courses I took emphasized promoting fun. They did not say have fun, but only if it does not conflict with winning. They did not say, make sure that the best players have fun. No, they say to make sure all players have fun regardless of win or lose. What am I missing here?

People naturally want to win, it is human nature. When we are forced to go against that very nature we start justifying. The player might get hurt or hurt another player because he is inexperience. How about experienced kids, they want to play the entire game and may not like it. We start thinking about all the possible reasons to justify our actions to shadow the truth that we want to win. Winning is a natural tendency. But ask yourself how many studies have you seen that proves that allowing beginner kids to play increases the chances of hurting a more experienced athlete? Sure, the beginner athlete might have a higher risk of injuring himself but that is a risk that the parents and that athlete take when the sign up. If they do not want that risk then they can choose to have their child not play in games, but that should be a parents decision. The coaches do not dictate whether that child wears a helmet when riding their bike - no the parents are responsible for making saftey decisions.

If the skilled kids are constantly in and out of the game, they will get a lot of playing time and if alternating in quick intervals, they will hardly notice they are sitting out at all. These kids most likely played last year so they are used to the system.

We are dealing with Youth Football players who are just starting out. These kids, all kids, need to have fun while developing their athletic abilities. If you want to win over having fun then please do not send mixed messages to the kids. Do not say having fun is the most important thing and then have your actions show that winning is more important. Be honest, not only to them but to yourself.

Really ask yourself, what is the real reason why I want the best players on the field? Does my actions promote fun or winning?

[jag1872]

Thank you for the feedback.

Just put yourself in the beginners shoes for a moment. Imaging yourself practicing day in and day out, running, doing drills in the hot sun. Now game day is here. All that hard work is going to pay off. You are talking to your parents that morning about playing in the big game, what you are going to do during the game. You get to the field, you warm up with the entire team, you get your name announced and run onto the field. You are excited and cant wait to play. Your parents are in the stands waiting to see their son play. Now you stand on the sidelines watching other kids play almost the entire half (20 minutes have passed). You finally get to go in and you run onto the field, full of excitement and ambition. You play two plays and then taken out. Half time passes and the same cycle occurs. You sit there watching other kids play and you play 2 plays then the game is ended. The coaches talk after the game was focused on how much fun that was. Did you have fun? You turn to your parents after the game and say how can I have fun if I only played 4 plays, I hate football. Ask yourself, as a coach, was the win 8 to 6 worth destroying this childs confidence and perception for the game of football?

Every single youth sport I have been around has said that having fun is most important for young atheletes. I have a degree in Athletic Coaching and all the courses I took emphasized promoting fun. They did not say have fun, but only if it does not conflict with winning. They did not say, make sure that the best players have fun. No, they say to make sure all players have fun regardless of win or lose. What am I missing here?

People naturally want to win, it is human nature. When we are forced to go against that very nature we start justifying. The player might get hurt or hurt another player because he is inexperience. How about experienced kids, they want to play the entire game and may not like it. We start thinking about all the possible reasons to justify our actions to shadow the truth that we want to win. Winning is a natural tendency. But ask yourself how many studies have you seen that proves that allowing beginner kids to play increases the chances of hurting a more experienced athlete? Sure, the beginner athlete might have a higher risk of injuring himself but that is a risk that the parents and that athlete take when the sign up. If they do not want that risk then they can choose to have their child not play in games, but that should be a parents decision. The coaches do not dictate whether that child wears a helmet when riding their bike - no the parents are responsible for making saftey decisions.

If the skilled kids are constantly in and out of the game, they will get a lot of playing time and if alternating in quick intervals, they will hardly notice they are sitting out at all. These kids most likely played last year so they are used to the system.

We are dealing with Youth Football players who are just starting out. These kids, all kids, need to have fun while developing their athletic abilities. If you want to win over having fun then please do not send mixed messages to the kids. Do not say having fun is the most important thing and then have your actions show that winning is more important. Be honest, not only to them but to yourself.

Really ask yourself, what is the real reason why I want the best players on the field? Does my actions promote fun or winning?

Coach,

I think in mainstream America the vast majority of people of lost touch with what sports are really about. Hitsorically sports are in soceity to teach life lessons, competition, and how to be winner in a controlled enviroment. I could be a little more detailed about it by giving specifics but I don't I need to at this point. No where in the history of mankind was a sport developed to make a child feel good about himself. With that being said I think we have progressed far enough to realize that setting a positive environment that allows young people to thrive offers the best environment for them to be successful. I think for anyone to get on the field to play in a game they should earn it. To simply state that every kid should be able to play with out any consequence for performance or attitude. If they practice hard and have a good attitude then they should be on the field. Don't think that for one instant that winning is not important...it is period. A study was done by Duke University in 2002 on a group of 5 and 6 year old kids playing flag football and through ten games the score was never kept...yet every kid knew who won and who didn't and who did well and who didn't.... Competition is a fact of life; it is the nature of human success and why we are on the top of the food chain. There is a good line between having fun and being successful...and any coach that says he doesn't mind losing all the time for the sake of every kid playing is flat out lying...you don't coach to lose games...and if you do you won't being coaching for very long. Kids want to win and they want to be successful...kids that are taught/coached to succeed bring that with them. I don't know of to many kids that have lost every game they have played in for the sake of everyone playing having a good opinion of their staff.

I have coached for sixteen years and a number of those having multiple seasons. I also did my thesis for my Masters in Sports Science in Youth Athletic Development. Coaching is about teaching kids how to succeed and only a small part of that is about letting them feel good about themself. Some times in order to learn that a kid has to earn it a little more then others and I don't see a problem with that if it is handled correctly and professionally. I for one played baseball for two seasons before I actually started because I played on pretty competitive 8 and 9 year old team. I played football starting at six and started and I didn't like the fact I was not playing on the baseball field but my father and my coach both told me why and how to get better and I did...I had to work for it. I think that made me a far better person and player then being allowed to simply play with out earning it. It taught me the value of being able to play and to start and it gave me the incentitive of working hard..if not harder then the other players. I think you lose something when coaches are castrated into starting players for the simple sake of making them feel good about themselves. This of course is my opinion but it is one I firmly believe in and it is on that I express to every player that plays for me and every parent that has a child on my team.

Jack

[mlbryant]

Thank you for the feedback.

Just put yourself in the beginners shoes for a moment. Imaging yourself practicing day in and day out, running, doing drills in the hot sun. Now game day is here. All that hard work is going to pay off. You are talking to your parents that morning about playing in the big game, what you are going to do during the game. You get to the field, you warm up with the entire team, you get your name announced and run onto the field. You are excited and cant wait to play. Your parents are in the stands waiting to see their son play. Now you stand on the sidelines watching other kids play almost the entire half (20 minutes have passed). You finally get to go in and you run onto the field, full of excitement and ambition. You play two plays and then taken out. Half time passes and the same cycle occurs. You sit there watching other kids play and you play 2 plays then the game is ended. The coaches talk after the game was focused on how much fun that was. Did you have fun? You turn to your parents after the game and say how can I have fun if I only played 4 plays, I hate football. Ask yourself, as a coach, was the win 8 to 6 worth destroying this childs confidence and perception for the game of football?

Every single youth sport I have been around has said that having fun is most important for young atheletes. I have a degree in Athletic Coaching and all the courses I took emphasized promoting fun. They did not say have fun, but only if it does not conflict with winning. They did not say, make sure that the best players have fun. No, they say to make sure all players have fun regardless of win or lose. What am I missing here?

People naturally want to win, it is human nature. When we are forced to go against that very nature we start justifying. The player might get hurt or hurt another player because he is inexperience. How about experienced kids, they want to play the entire game and may not like it. We start thinking about all the possible reasons to justify our actions to shadow the truth that we want to win. Winning is a natural tendency. But ask yourself how many studies have you seen that proves that allowing beginner kids to play increases the chances of hurting a more experienced athlete? Sure, the beginner athlete might have a higher risk of injuring himself but that is a risk that the parents and that athlete take when the sign up. If they do not want that risk then they can choose to have their child not play in games, but that should be a parents decision. The coaches do not dictate whether that child wears a helmet when riding their bike - no the parents are responsible for making saftey decisions.

If the skilled kids are constantly in and out of the game, they will get a lot of playing time and if alternating in quick intervals, they will hardly notice they are sitting out at all. These kids most likely played last year so they are used to the system.

We are dealing with Youth Football players who are just starting out. These kids, all kids, need to have fun while developing their athletic abilities. If you want to win over having fun then please do not send mixed messages to the kids. Do not say having fun is the most important thing and then have your actions show that winning is more important. Be honest, not only to them but to yourself.

Really ask yourself, what is the real reason why I want the best players on the field? Does my actions promote fun or winning?

Let's see... lot's to talk about now. It is pretty obvious you are on the side of the fence with a child that doesn't play as much as you'd like. And while I can sympathize with your plight, I feel a number of your arguments lack validity, at least from a football perspective. For example, as brought out earlier, football is a team contact sport. This isn't baseball or basketball, where the lack of inability simply decreases the chances the tem will win. In football, an inexperienced child can cause injury to his teamates. Take out an experienced lineman and place a child that refuses to block and see what happens. Maybe not the first play or the second, but it will happen that the defensive coach will see that and place his stud linebacker on a blitz through that hole. Now you have a QB who is unprotected, and turned around to hand the ball or looking down field to pass; he's blind-sided. If he's injured and I have seen it happen several times (thus I don't need a study to show me any statistics) who is at fault, the injured child, the child that was inexperienced, or the coach that "makes it fun". Did your coaching degree give you insight to explain your decision to the parents of the hurt child? How fun is it to miss the rest of the season because you were injured?

You mention this is done in ice hockey. I have played and coached ice hockey for 12 years. Ice hockey isn't football. If I miss or refuse to check my man on the ice, he gets by me with the puck and maybe scores. If I miss my block or refuse to make my block, I can injure a team mate. How often did the ice hockey coach mix up the lines (i.e. subbing one kid in for another in the middle of a game). You can't do that either with much success in ice hockey; players need to be able to know and depend on the man beside them on their line.

My job first and foremost is to ensure my kids are safe. End of story. I walk the field before practice looking for rocks and debris that could injure my kids. I check each kids shoulder pads, helmets and ensure they are wearing the appropriate pads in their pants. I performed the fit of every player's equipment on handout day. On hot days, we break every 15 minutes for fluids and I watch my kids for symptoms of a heat related illness. I will also play weaker kids in positions where they cannot injure themselves or their team mates.

Secondly, I never sell football to my parents as just a way to have fun. I explain that football takes hard work and lot's of it. It takes talent and heart to win a football game; the fun comes from knowing that you left nothing on thefield; a sense of pride. This isn't a sport where the talents of the indivdual can shine without the support of his team mates. It is a complete team effort; when one man let's down, the team is weakened for that play. I am open and communcative to my parents. When they have a question about playing time or what their child can do to improve, I tell them as honestly as I can. I work harder with my poorer players than I do my stars. It is always my goal to improve each player on the team.

Lastly, what kind of message do I send to the kids? Hard work, dedication, and skill have their rewards. If you don't measure up, work harder; improve yourself become better if that's what you truly want. I am not out to destroy a child's confidence, but I won't inflate it either.

What message would you send out? Don't beat yourself to death working; it's irrelevant. You will play just as much as any other child on the team because you are entitled to, not by your actions, but by simply showing up.