Can Rb Cut Block Lb On Sweep Plays

[coach_roy 0]

I have small fast backs that get rag dolled on sweep plays in practice. Our season starts next week and I have noticed we have had success running our sweep plays when the little guys cut block the linebackers.

Now when we run the sweeps the linebackers are worried about the cut blocks which slows them down and allows our backs to turn the corner. IS THIS BLOCK LEGAL OUTSIDE THE TACKLE BOX?

[patscoach 0]

You should check the rules of play in your league. Ours does not allow any blocks from behind or any blocks below the waist outside the tackle box and beyond a 6 yds zone either side of the LOS.

As a coaching point we do not allow our guys to use a cut block due to the increased chance of injury, legal or not. We try to use double teams on the ends and wall/shield blocks on linebackers for our sweeps. I have a DT on crutches now because of an O lineman diving at him and hitting him below the waist in desperation, within the tackle box. My guy beat him and paid an awful price. In my opinion that's not football, especially for kids in grades 5-8.

[CoachSteve 0]

the question of rules depends on the system you play under. I believe the Pop Warner rule book makes some specific statements and then defers to the National Association or the NCAA rule book on blocking (I think whichever is determined by your League). However, that is all National Level stuff; your local rules may very well be more restrictive. You have to find out what rule book governs your league and go dig up the rule. Pop Warner posts their rulebook on line but you need a password from your league to open it (coachs are supposed to get the password). You can find the NCAA rulebook at www.ncaa.org. I would check directly with your league commisioner or better yet, a league official.

All of that said - I agree 100% with Patscoach - I do not like a cut block anywhere on the field. It is dangerous to the blocker and the blockee. I was once asked to teach a cut block by an HC; I flat refused and told him to fire me if he wants. He asked another assistant on the team who gave him the same answer. He never asked again.

[jag1872 0]

Coach it is dependant on your league and if they play under NFHS or NCAA rules. Under NCAA rules you can cut block. Under NFHS rules you can only cut block if your in the free blocking zone (4 yards wide - 3 yards deep on each side) as well both players being on the LOS at the time.

Now I disgree with both of the other coaches about cut blocking as I have used a form of cut blocking going on ten years and have yet to see an injury from it. I call it shoeshining that my BSTE does to seal of backside penetration. It is actually a cutoff block. He simply dives for the center's ear hole ad then works up to playside The purpose is to seal an inside defender that crosses the LOS; he is going to run into the shoesine and fall on his face (happens a lot). We never teach a cut block that aims for a body part. I agree with them whole heartedly that a traditional cut block is hazardous and Iwill not teach one at all.

I don't teach my backs to cut either because the momentum and distance of the two players can generate a large amount of force and in my mind that is a set up for an injury and I don't think it is worth it.

I know Pop Warner and JAAF use NFHS rules but if your independant it might be different. I use NCAA rules.

Jack

[CoachSteve 0]

That shoestring block sounds like it might be okay - I would have to see it but it definitly does not sound like it is making the opponents knees the target.

[winston 0]

I would definitlely be interested in this "shoestring" block, can anyone post instructions here on that's done please?

[coach_roy 0]

I just want everyone to know that my CUTBLOCK is nothing more than my little guys diving at the feet of the linebackers to make them trip over there body. I dont want anyone to think that I am going after knees. I was thinking about the best interst of my little guys who are getting lit up by linebackers that out weigh them by 30 to 40 pounds. if the majority of you my coaching peers feel this style of block is to dangerous then I would surely find an alternative. I look forward to more of your comments on this matter.

[jag1872 0]

Shoeshine block - (cut off)

Used by the Back side lineman to negate backside leakage.

I use it with my BSTE when my BSG and BST pull (and they pull on 75% of all my plays).

The BSTE aims for the center's ear hole and dives then bear crawls the remainder of the way. Once the play goes by he is on his feet and blocking down field to seal off the play from defenders flowing playside.

The blocker is attempting to create a low barrier that the defender runs into. In reality if anything the defender fires off and his shins run into the blocker and he falls over. Once that happens he normally stands up and goes around the backside (away from the play) or attempts to go over the top. We tell our blocker to lift his butt if that occurs.

The force of the blocker is going down the line not at the defender so the only force applied to the defender is teh defender's on force (Mass*Acceleration) of the defender.

Jack

[winston 0]

My son learnt the cutblock at a very early age [10] and he's very good at it and still uses it today on occasion but I have NEVER seen ANY injuries [sorry for the caps] come out of it, I guess what Coach Roy is saying here is that it depends on how you do it, my son was/is never instructed to attack the knees, he was only instructed to roll in front of the defender to as Coach Roy mentioned "trip him up" and not to dive into the knees of any defender, even our Oline still uses the "roll" block on passing plays which is basically done the same way. My 2 cents.

[Soonerhawk 0]

I've never taught our kids to cut block nor will I ever. We focus on the fundamentals. There is a serious risk of injury to the defensive player, especially at this level as the kids just aren't able to process everything that is going on around them in time to react. An alternative that we do teach is to attack the chest first and then slide down the body when facing a larger player.

[winston 0]

My HC back then only used this on the smaller blockers when they would face much bigger guys who would run over them. I personally won't teach this because a player has to execute this properly not to hurt the defender but also for the reason that there is a risk to the blocker if not done properly, a blocker could easily get hit in the head with the defender's knees which is why I inquired about the "shoeshine" because I need something as effective for my smaller players to defend themselves against the bigger meaner guys.

p.s.Sorry Coach Roy, did not mean to butt in here but this topic will help my kids too, thanks.

[jag1872 0]

Soonerhawk,

I hate to tell you this but cut blocking is a fundamental of higher level football whether you like it or not. Cutting below the waist is legal in the NCAA. I deal with it on boths sides of the ball every season.

Not that I agree with forms of cut blocking but if your talking fundamentals just about everthing we do in football could be considered dangerous (to a point). Like anything you have to use a technique that is sound and safe and then stress it. Just like you have to keep your head up when you block, tackle, and run.

Jack

[Soonerhawk 0]

agreed jaq,

I just don't think the kids are mentally ready to defend themselves against this. So, I personally won't teach it. I'm not saying some coaches we compete against don't. I just don't agree with teaching this at this level.

[patscoach 0]

jag, Sooner,

Although there may be some similarities, there is more of a fundamental difference between the shoeshine and the cut block. The shoeshine is more used in the interior line to get a tackle or TE to cut off a DT or other DL lined up over the man next to him, to stop penetration i.e. if the guard is pulling and the DT is active we need to head him off. His point of attack is "in front of the man" at an angle such that he heads off the DT "in the scrum". In this case, and as for the normal double wing splits, the tackle has to only go 3 or 4 feet to get there to be effective, and is expected to continue to drive his legs, burrowing his way in front of his assignment who is already low and burrowing. I liken it to 2 pigs fighting. There is more room for error here, I think.

The cut block, as I read it described in the NFL/NFLPA/NFF Coaching Academy playbook (just one resource) is more designed for a running back to aim at the waist of a defender in a more open field situation. It teaches the man to get low, and thrust parallel to the ground, with the point of attack in this block being "into the hip" - a recipe for a smaller back to leave his feet and potentially miss his mark low and inadvertently hitting too low on a charging DE or LB in an upright stance, being quite vulnerable. I liken this to an axe cutting down a tree. There is less room for error here, I think.

If I used all of the techniques I learned from my HS and college O Line coaches, my youth football team would be ostracised throughout the league. Fingers wuld be bit, eyes would be poked, ears would be ringing and some would go home questioning their mother's daily activities. Yeah it's fundamental at those levels but I think the question targeted a youth team. We all have our own experiences and I try to tailor my ideas to the target player.

Pats

[winston 0]

ok, let me jump in here please, what should I do with my smaller guys when they need to block much bigger aggressive defenders?

[CoachSteve 0]

good technique, double teams, and maximize angles. The last may be the most important as it is a question of physics - the blocker coming at an angle essentially has his blocking force increased to the angle he takes. I thought Jack wrote a bit about the physics bit in another thread but I have not found it yet. Actually, there is a very interesting book out there - at least interesting for football geeks like me - called the Physics of Football. Basically, a physicist wrote a book about how different forces are applied and maximized on a football field. It is an interesting read - I cut through most of it in a couple of hours on the floor of the bookstore - I then bought something else!! I know, I know, bad coach!

On technique - a solid 3 point stance and solid footwork coming out of the stance is king.

Double teams are good but if you are concerned about backers, you can do what I call a chip block. This is where I have an uncovered OL make an angle block on the DL who is over his neighbor. Against a 5-3, the OG is often left uncovered and the OT is covered. So, the OT makes his regular block and the OG angle blocks the DT just long enough to get the DT moving and off balance a bit - the OG then slides off and goes hunting for the next off color jersey.

[patscoach 0]

Winston,

Teach your little guys to get low and thrust up through the defender. This way he's got his body headed in the right direction. Sure he'll get licked, but he's gonna get licked no matter what he does in a power blocking assignment, especially if he (your team) is outmatched in size and aggression. At that point his safety, as well as that of the defender has to be the next most important aspect of the play. You can also use a pulling guard to help out with kick out and pass blocking responsibilities on the edges of the pocket.

We use our "little guy package" - backs around 90 - 110 (8th graders!) - to run our misdirection plays. This allows a back to use deception and angles to get blocks in rather than having to stand in the way and power block. Steve, was that you sitting next to me at the bookstore? I did the same on the same book! My kid was younger then and I wound up buying Soccer For Dummies.

Got your message on what happened with this thread. It turned into a referendum on cut blocks and didn't get to the essence of your question.

[jag1872 0]

Patscoach,

A cut block is a generic term for any block below the waist line. The NFL my now call it one thing but generally when you talk football blocking it is simply any block below the waist. Normally when I attend the Nike clinics and Megaclinics all I attend now are blocking clinics..it is only thing that interests me really at the clinics and just about everyone

But I agree the shoeshine is an interior block on the LOS.

Jack

[Spread it out 0]

I felt the same way as most of you,but My local HS coach uses the cut block on a regular basis. Since I'm using his offense I decided to have him give me a course on it. I only have my wr's and play side Tackle cut. I only have them cut on screens to their side. The way I taught my guys to do it was simple. I have them drive the arm and shoulder across the thigh of the defender (NOT @ the knee or below). So its not a direct hit to the player yet it knocks them back far enough to take them out of the play. When I did teach it to the kids.I also showed them how to defend it. Its not as difficult as I thought it would be. The kids caught on quick and I have yet to have someone go down from it. Its very easy to defend and its helped out our defensive players. Now I have 7th+8th grade kids. It might be a bit harder to get across to the younger kids,but my 11-13's have picked it up well! G/L