Please Help! 0-3

[Coach Bob 0]

Hi everyone, I am so glad I found this website and I suspect I will now be up reading all night. So, thank you in advance!

Quick background of our league. 3rd/4th grade division. Flag Football, 8 v 8. Full rush. Offense has to have 2 receivers outside the hash(about 8 yards from center.) Typically 4 O-lineman. Defense is 1 yard off ball and can come full tilt. Typical defense is 4 on the line, 2 LB's and 2 safeties up on the receiver. Some teams are pulling both lineman up to the line and just killing us.

I am more of defensive expert. Attack ball, pull flags. Pretty simple. Usually. Offense, we have not scored a TD yet and my boys are getting frustrated. As are the coaches and parents. I have a couple assistants running the offense and I feel like we are making it really difficult for the boys to learn plays, etc.. We have a practice tomorrow and next game is Saturday, so I am already looking forward to next weeks practice and game and calling this week wash as we can not really change much. I feel like we do a pretty good job at practice and getting plays off, however, come game time, we are running into each other poor snaps(we are in shotgun). It really comes down to blocking and give the QB and RB time to move. We have been very aggressive passing, however, that has blown up in our face and I think our last 6 passes have been INTs. 4 of which for TD's. I had asked at tonights game no passing until we establish a run game and then went ok for a bit and then the wheels fell off. The boys then began running into each other. Blocking was horrible. I can see the frustration in the boys eyes. We passed 3 times and 1 was INT for another TD.....

We have a practice tomorrow. Any thoughts or expert opinions would be greatly appreciated! Playbooks, really, whatever. I am not seeing a whole lot of 8v8 here. I am honestly not concerned about winning right now, I just want to score a touchdown for these boys. I am at my wits end and do not want to keep seeing these boys get disappointed. Please help! Thanks again for reading my ramble.

Coach Bob

[Orange 26]

I'm coaching 5 on 5 which is a different game but some techniques and strategies hold true throughout all football. My boys are 4-5 grade. I can tell you that when we throw interceptions there are certain things that typically precede it. I would examine your picks to see if the same thing is happening to your team. What I see is a QB who is under pressure from a rusher and throwing off his back foot. That pressure causes him to move away (backwards) which takes a lot of velocity off the ball giving the defenders a better chance to step up and grab it. The result is a duck pass. The other thing that the pressure causes is the QB to try to force a throw where he shouldn't. Basically he's scared of getting sacked and will try to force a ball to a receiver who is well covered, sometimes by multiple defenders. Also, both things can happen and you have a duck pass thrown at someone who is well covered and you can only hope the defenders run into each other.

Occasionally the QB will just make an error or the defender will make a good play. I can live with those two but the panicked throwing I cannot, and that's where I see most of the picks. To avoid those kinds of passes we have done several things. First and foremost we design most all of our plays to get the ball out of the qbs hands before the rushers can even get to them. Lots of quick slants, swingouts, short hooks, things like that. Secondly, I emphasize with my qbs not to throw in a panicked mode. They have to either buy time or take the sack. This I emphasize every chance I get. Some Qb's understand this better than others.

[bryce's dad 0]

We play 8v8, but only the DT's may rush. I think the league wants to at least give teams the opportunity to run some plays before being overrun by the D. My issue with the all out rush scenario is that a good DE will kill most offense. My son is a terror out there and single handedly disrupted most plays in a league we played in last year (and that was with a 3-yard neutral zone, I would pity the kid trying to block him one on one on the outside). I think there are 2 things to attack on the problem.

First, in practice you need to work on a couple of mechanical things like taking handoofs at full speed, getting your QB away from center quickly (good DTs can shoot the C-G gap) and running a few pays very well. For handoffs, we run a drill with the team split into to lines facing each other about 7 yards apart. First players in each line run at each other and execute a handoff at full speed. Second person in the line the runs out and takes a handoff and alternate from line to line. Focus on good form in taking the handoff (correct arm position) and dropped handoffs result in some sort of penalty (we use it to count up the number of sprints at the end of a practice). Gets the kids in the habit of running at full speed to collect a handoff.

Secondly, keep in mind that 3 things can happen when you pass the ball and 2 of them are BAD! Establish the running game - getting guys to the outside QUICKLY with 2 LBs and effectively 2 cornerbacks, there is not a lot of help deep and you only have to block half the field + and extra DT. I would use a basic QB rollout as the base for my O. He can get away from the mess in the middle and get outside quickly. We used a WR end-around a lot in a previous league with pretty good success. A pitch to the RB should also help get away from the heat. The bootleg action might also give your QB more time to throw and a chance to get behind the CB covering your receiver. I will try to post my old playbook (it was 7v7, but similar blocking/rush rules) if I can find it. My 8v8 is probably too tough to translate because we play without WR (that position plus a TE is what gets added next year when they move up to the tackle division).

I will try and post some stuff a little later today. Good luck - and there are a lot of guys on here that can help. Post some specific topc threads on issues you guys are having.

[Johnp2 21]

Hi Bob,

I can recommend two plays to deal with an aggressive rush. We play 8vs8 also, and face defenses as you've described. Of course, I coach younger kids 7-9, but below are two plays we run when blitzed. I'll preface this by saying that in our league, when a team rushes, they have to let the offense know---thus we know which play to play. However, if you face a team that rushes 2+ linemen on every play, you should consider below:

1. Statue of Liberty. We don't run the classic version (where QB pumps and places ball behind him) instead we have our QB drop back, cock his arm back and hold it while a receiver coming on an end-around snatches it out of his hands. Consider putting a receiver in the slot about 3-5 yards outside the C. You'll probably need to fine-tune the timing, but it's a thing of beauty to see a defender holding up the QB's flag only to realize someone else has the ball and is already to the outside. ;-)

2. Shuffle pass. I've attached and example. We usually run this to the guards. Simply have the guard chip the rushing lineman, the QB side steps and shuffles it to the guard and he should have some room to run. Not a home-run play, but will keep the defense honest.

I hope this helps some. Your team will be fine. Just don't be afraid to scrap plays that don't work (even if they look good on paper).

Shuffle_Pass.doc

[Coach Bob 0]

Orange and Bryce's Dad-

Thanks for the words and ideas! Greatly appreciated. I am thinking about scripting the first 8 plays and just running them straight through in practice. Just so when we get to game time, we will know what we are doing from a consistency standpoint. I like the drill ideas, we tried that early on and have not done it enough.

If you get a chance to find your playbook, please feel free to email me at theorech@gmail.com

Anyone have an idea for a "fun" activity we can do at practice tonight? Does not have to be football related, I just want the boys to have some fun that they can relate to football. The last 2 games I seriously can see their frustration.

Thanks again!

Bob

[Coach Bob 0]

Thanks John!

[coach sadkins 0]

Bob,

Sorry for the rough start.It happens to all of us at some point. I am coaching 4-5 8v8 where it sounds like our rules are the same. The key I think is you most get the ball to the outside as quick as possible. Via sweeps, QB bootlegs. Passing we use a ton of slants, button hooks and flares from the backfield. After a couple of chase downs the D should relax and be less aggressive. I preach that QB gets the ball to the RB or WR, not they go to him. It helps get the play outside quicker. I would highly recommend the split back formation. This does cut down on run ins.

I do a drill in our practice where I time the QB in response time in a play. But I use this as a team effort. I give 4-5 seconds from the snap to hand the ball off or get a pass off. It has improved the QB play under pressure but the rest of the O understands how to respond in this time frame. I feel alot of bad throws and Int is caused by lack of attention by other players.(i.e WR/RB not turning the head or late getting off the ball.)

I notice you made mention of Shotgun. Personally I am not a fan of this just from personally exp. Either the ball doesn't make it our they loft it when the QB finally gets it the defense is in his face. We had two teams last fall that ran shotgun and on D we ate them alive because of the loft snap. You be surprise how much quicker the QB can get to the same position when under center.

Well hope this advice gives you soem ideas.

Good Luck

[Orange 26]

Great idea John, take advantage of the aggressiveness of the rushers.

I'm a big supporter of the game, Ultimate Football. It helps with football skills but at the same time is a lot of fun for the kids to play. It's played just like Ultimate Frisbee except with a football. There is a lot of running, catching and man coverage going on. It's the most requested game to play by my kids.

[Johnp2 21]

I am thinking about scripting the first 8 plays and just running them straight through in practice.

This is a great idea. This will also help you pick up on the defense's tendencies.

Anyone have an idea for a "fun" activity we can do at practice tonight? Does not have to be football related, I just want the boys to have some fun that they can relate to football. The last 2 games I seriously can see their frustration.

You certainly have the right attitude, Bob. A few seasons ago we went 4-5 (including the playoffs) but at the end of the day, we were a very close team (losing games can bring kids together as much as winning) and everyone had the times of their lives that season.

As for "fun" activities---I assume you guys have played 'Sharks and Minnow'? Always a big hit. Whether we are winning or losing, I always spend time with team building practices. Have a "get to know your teammate" session. Call each of the players up one-by-one and ask them various questions, Favorite video game, favorite football team, etc. Also perhaps have a skills competition. Who can run the fastest, throw the farthest, kick/punt the ball the longest, etc. Kids love competition, and while it does not have anything to do with x's and o's---it helps with moral.

Good luck!

[Coach Rob 26]

Offensive ideas -

1) Like Orange said, get plays off quicker if you can - shorter passes - quicker handoffs, etc.

2) If they send a rusher from the same place throw a short dink in that area.

3) With 5 vs. 5 this is a bit easier, but I would throw out some off balance formations. Trips way out wide to one side kind of thing and run the play to the other side.

4) Misdirection plays emphasizing the importance of good fakes. Check out my playbook in the playbook section and look for a play called "Flood". You could modify that, but it works almost every time for a quick short pass.

Practice fun stuff -

1) We play Ultimate also, get the parents involved and play kids vs. parents.

2) Sharks/Minnows like John said.

3) Passing back and forth with tip drill. One QB, one receiver and a DB behind receiver. Receiver tips ball in air, DB tries to catch it.

4) (Rush's drill) Create a small square with cones - one QB, one receiver, one defender. Receiver tries to get open in square, defender bugs the heck out of receiver by pushing, grabbing, whatever. Pts for catches.

5) Gauntlet - small alleyway lined by cones (10yds wide), 3 defenders lined up behind each other with some space. Runner takes handoff and tries to see how far they can make it through the Gauntlet. Works on handoffs, running straight ahead, not looking down if they feel something and flag pulls.

[bryce's dad 0]

Another thought, we had a team line up a RB just a couple yards behind the guard where a lot of our rush was coming from. They were able to slow my best rushers a little with that technique.

I am attaching the only plays I could find. The first file was our base setup (wing on the right or left). You could modify with another receiver. The Center Pass was stolen from the Center Drag in other playbooks here. The fake end around usually got the D moving the wrong direction (we ran and I can't find the end around as our first play every game). The Center chips the DT and moves quickly down the line. We scored the first time we ran it (the D had 2 safeties back chasing the fake). The QB and C are only a couple yards apart so it is an easy pass. We also used this for short yardage and extra points. The TE pass requires a faster kid as receiver and goes deeper. It is riskier if the doesn't completely buy the fake as the LBs might be able to get back in coverage. MAKE SURE that the kid running the fake is going as fast as they can to really sel it.

Another file to follow - getta get some work done first!

Left Formation Center and TE pass.doc

[Coach Bob 0]

Thanks again everyone! I look forward to practice in a little bit. One other thing we are going to do. Since we do not have enough to run a full scrimmage as there are only 13 kids on our team. I am going to let the offense run on there own and really work on the execution piece and I am going to take the rest of the players and work on flag pulling drills/gauntlet. This way the offense can work on their own without a defense getting in the way.

Can anyone give me a rundown how ultimate football works. Never heard of it and I tried a search and it came up with too many threads to read through before practice.

Thanks again!

Bob

[Orange 26]

Ultimate football is like Ultimate Frisbee. Two teams and play is continuous. One team starts with the ball, the person with the ball cannot move. His teammates can run anywhere on the field to get open and the other team covers them. They pass it to their teammates, who have to stop when they make a catch. If the ball is intercepted or hits the ground, then the other team takes possession. Each team is trying to work the ball down the field to the endzone. You don't have to wait or get set to pass, you just keep going. When the ball changes possession the other team immediately begins throwing it to their players the other way. You have to give the person with the ball a 1-2 yard cushion to make a pass.

[Coach Bob 0]

Ultimate football is like Ultimate Frisbee. Two teams and play is continuous. One team starts with the ball, the person with the ball cannot move. His teammates can run anywhere on the field to get open and the other team covers them. They pass it to their teammates, who have to stop when they make a catch. If the ball is intercepted or hits the ground, then the other team takes possession. Each team is trying to work the ball down the field to the endzone. You don't have to wait or get set to pass, you just keep going. When the ball changes possession the other team immediately begins throwing it to their players the other way. You have to give the person with the ball a 1-2 yard cushion to make a pass.

Perfect! We will try that one next week.

[Coach Bob 0]

Thanks again everyone! Practice tonight was awesome. I am looking forward to our game on Saturday. We changed up the offense and they all loved it and thought it was easy to run. Every one of the boys had a blast tonight as did the coaches. Stay tuned. Looking for our first offensive TD this weekend.

[coach sadkins 0]

Good Luck Coach Bob!!!