Team Troubleshooting

[ukce1861 0]

Inspired by an e-mail from Rob, here's my diatribe on my early coaching experience. (Sorry for the length, but I felt background was important. For more background, you can see my playbook here)

To say it was going terrible might be a slight exaggeration…

We lost our first game 25-0. Basically, we couldn’t move the ball on offense and our defense collapsed to the middle on every play. They had a couple of quick kids who would bounce to the outside and then off to the races… Nothing went well that day.

The second game was a lot better. We moved the ball relatively well, had some decent drives and busted three long runs, two of which resulted in touchdowns. (Proud father aside: My son scored the first touchdown on a 30+ yard run. And I’m not one of those “feed it my kid” coaches; he only got two touches that game.) We gave up one long run and won 14-6, getting both extra points (runs from the 5 yard line). But it’s against the team that’s 0-3, losing to all three of the teams in our league.

Our game this past weekend was fairly good defensively. They broke a long run on a reverse. Four of our five kids bit hard on the reverse and the one that didn’t tripped just as he got to the ball carrier. They scored another touchdown on a long run where three of our kids collided in the backfield right at the ball carrier. They went down in a heap and the runner escaped and outran one other kid that had decent position. Again, we had a ton of trouble moving the ball and lost 14-2 (got a safety and gave up a safety).

Here are the main problems I’ve identified. First, our kids try and dance when faced with defenders. Instead of running downfield they’re running side to side, or worse, backwards, to avoid defenders. We have one kid that’s probably fast enough to get away with this but the rest aren’t. Even with him, I’d prefer downhill running to shifting in the backfield. One of my biggest kids could frankly intimidate most defenders out of his way if he would just charge downfield but he won’t. How do I get them to run north-south, as opposed to east-west?

Second, as you might have seen on the forum, my new playbook is really limited. Basically it’s an off-tackle left and right and end around left and right. I’ve got a center drag in there but the passing game seems to be out of reach for now. I’ve got a couple that have a good arm standing still but they can’t hit a moving target and get them in a game situation and they panic. In the first game we threw the ball square in the back of one receiver and into open space on another play (literally all the kids were on the other side of the field)… The second game we threw no passes. Last week we tried a couple but they weren’t even close to productive. I feel like most of the kids don’t even have our limited playbook down so I hesitate to expand it. But as we are, we don’t spread the field enough so the other team loads up the box and we can’t do anything. I still have to explain to one kid that just because she’s not getting the ball, she shouldn’t try and pull flags… How do I add variety with out overwhelming them?

I’m thinking of doing a couple of things. One, I’m thinking of doing an all pass practice. Routes, passing, catching, etc. Two, I’m thinking of locking in positions a bit more. I have a couple of little 6 year olds who are good centers but, honestly, can’t run to save their lives. I have a couple of other kids who have no idea how to throw and can’t even position themselves right for the hand-off. Right now I’m trying to rotate kids fairly evenly through all the positions but I’m about ready to settle on some, or at least preclude some kids from certain positions. Is that terrible? Third, what do you do with the kids who, for lack of a better term, stink? I have one kid who is, honestly, terrible. I call the kid my rock because he doesn’t move. When he’s lined up at running back, he doesn’t move until I tell him to go (even in a game). Same thing if he’s lined up at receiver. On one defensive play in the first game, they got a 45 yard run for a touchdown. I’m hustling down the field to line our defense up for the extra point and I look back and he’s still standing there, rooted to the spot I told him to go to. What do I do?

Defensively, I think we’re in decent shape. We’re staying at home a lot better than the first game and, with the exception of some long plays, we’ve kept the offenses in check the last two weeks. Offensively, we’re, shall we say, severely challenged… Do I throw more out there even though all of them haven’t figured out the first bunch?

Next week should be an interesting test as we play the team we played in week one. They’ve rolled through their first three games, so we’ll see. And we’re down at least two kids next week…

Sorry for the long post...

P.S. I realized reading through the post I probably sound a little overly competitive. I won't lie, I'm a very competitive person, but I do my best to keep it in check with the kids. We talk about having fun and giving your best effort being what's most important. That being said, I want to win and I want to compete. I guess I don't believe in all that "everybody's a winner" and I'm glad that only the championship team gets trophies in our league. While I'll be just as proud of our kids if they got out there and play hard and right and still lose, I still want to win...

[rushbuster70 16]

Trust me I understand how you are...Im super competitive even though I try to keep it in check its hard.I still want to win...What age group are these kids 6-8?With that age short passes and runs will work.If your going to run spread it out.Put your WR farther out.Put Twins on one side then run to the other side.That will help open it up some.Throw an end around in there also.I coach older kids but I've watched the younger ones and some do what we do.Keep running left and right.Try and a few curl routes.

When it comes to the kids and positions it all depends.I've had teams where we could rotate everyone for the most part and teams where some of the kids cant do a single thing...Im realistic about it and dont want them to look like an idot.I put them in a position where they are going to be ok and challenge them at that spot.I know its hard to do but i'm worrying about the kid not the parent...Also blitzing a kid like that works too.

What kind of defense are you running?

Good luck.Post any more questions you might have.

[Coach Rob 26]

How do I get them to run north-south, as opposed to east-west?

Have to drill this home every single practice and during the game. Run straight ahead towards the end zone, look where you're going, don't look down to see if someone pulled your flag (even if you feel something) and don't stop until you hear a whistle. Catch the kids who run e/w doing it right and make a HUGE deal out of it. I tell/show my kids, no one gets out there and shakes their booty when they have the ball, run straight, fast and hard. Football is about gaining yards, the more you gain, the more fun the team will have because we'll get to run more plays. If you run side to side or decide to break dance, the other team will get the ball sooner.

A good drill for this is making an alley out of cones (15 ft apart or so) and having two defenders in the alley, 1 up front and 1 in back. The runner takes a ball and tries to see how many cones they can pass. If you find the runners have too much room to dance, make the alley less wide. You'd be surprised how many of them get through two defenders by running straight ahead and not looking down to see if their flag was pulled.

How do I add variety with out overwhelming them?

My experience is that we as coaches tend to think if we just had two or three more cool plays, then things would get better on offense. The problem is, if your kids are struggling with some of the basic plays, adding more variety could make it more confusing for them and more difficult for you to fumble around with all the plays. I'd keep it simple, shorten the pass routes and maybe add a few misdirection type plays, fake handoff and then a pitch to someone.

One, I’m thinking of doing an all pass practice. Routes, passing, catching, etc.

Not sure an entire practice is needed for passing, but you could split the kids into two groups, one working on defense with another coach and the other group working on passing related stuff with you. Switch after X amt of minutes. One thing on pass routes, the kids will tend to make those 2 step drag routes into 5 step slant patterns. Repetition is the best solution on the pass routes. Tell them, show them, make them do it, tell them, show them, make them do it, etc.

Two, I’m thinking of locking in positions a bit more. I have a couple of little 6 year olds who are good centers but, honestly, can’t run to save their lives. I have a couple of other kids who have no idea how to throw and can’t even position themselves right for the hand-off. Right now I’m trying to rotate kids fairly evenly through all the positions but I’m about ready to settle on some, or at least preclude some kids from certain positions. Is that terrible?

Don't think that is terrible at all, I remember starting out playing everyone at QB, BIG mistake. Since then, I've allowed several to play QB depending upon the circumstances in the game, but I know who my centers are, who my rushers are, QBs, etc. I think it's ok to play your strengths as long as you're not consistently playing the same kids on offense and defense or only allowing a few key players to run every time.

Third, what do you do with the kids who, for lack of a better term, stink? I have one kid who is, honestly, terrible. I call the kid my rock because he doesn’t move. When he’s lined up at running back, he doesn’t move until I tell him to go (even in a game). Same thing if he’s lined up at receiver. On one defensive play in the first game, they got a 45 yard run for a touchdown. I’m hustling down the field to line our defense up for the extra point and I look back and he’s still standing there, rooted to the spot I told him to go to. What do I do?

Have to get someone (assistant coach or parent) to help during practice work with the player individually. That person literally stands with the player during a scrimmage or drill helping them move where they need to move. In years past, I've had to take the kid by the shoulders and move him forward, etc. Then get them to hustle back, etc. Again, catch them doing something right and make a BIG deal out of it.

Offensively, we’re, shall we say, severely challenged… Do I throw more out there even though all of them haven’t figured out the first bunch?

Work on the fundamentals, pick a few things you want them to do and emphasize those over and over. I bet if you just get these guys running north/south, not looking down to see if someone pulled their flag, you'd start to see huge improvement. Once they experience those longer runs, they start to "get it". Keep the pass routes really short, no need for long bombs at this point.

P.S. I realized reading through the post I probably sound a little overly competitive. I won't lie, I'm a very competitive person, but I do my best to keep it in check with the kids. We talk about having fun and giving your best effort being what's most important. That being said, I want to win and I want to compete. I guess I don't believe in all that "everybody's a winner" and I'm glad that only the championship team gets trophies in our league. While I'll be just as proud of our kids if they got out there and play hard and right and still lose, I still want to win...

You sound just like the rest of us, we're all competitive or we wouldn't be doing this gig. The challenge is keeping it fun and playing with integrity. Our team is playing in the finals this next weekend against the #1 team whose offensive scheme is to let 2-3 fast kids play QB which turns into a tuck and run most of the game. It's real tempting to play the same way, but it's not fair to the 7 other kids on the team. I'll let you know how we do.

Sounds like you're doing fine and experiencing what every single coach has gone through with some variation on the theme. Good questions.

CRob

[Orange 26]

I don't want to complicate your plays but I might make a few changes. The off tackle runs are OK, but I assume they must load up in the middle making that run very difficult. Your end arounds are good but you're going to be facing the same defense, stacked in the middle. We faced a pretty good running team that literally ran everything from the middle like that. From end to end their formation was about 10 yards wide on the los. After 3 plays I had my defense so thick in the middle they could absolutely not move an inch.

Here's a change I'd make: I would have the running back fake an off tackle right and then hit the end around left. The way you have it, if they bite on the fake off tackle, they are still on the correct side. You want the defense pursuing the wrong way.

Another way to run the end arounds is with no running back. With no backs that will spread the defense out a little more. It's hard to tell on your playbook but make sure you spread the wideouts a little, giving you room in the middle to work. You can have the slot guy take the end around too.

I am a big fan of the center drag but to really make it work you need to get the defense biting one way and then run the drag the other way. I usually do that with a fake end around left and then center drag right. The misdirection is really key. You could run off tackle left as an alternative, make sure the qb does some kind of fake. And you mentioned that they can't pass or catch. The center drag is more of a lateral and resembles a basketball chest pass. It should be no more than 3 yards or so, it's extremely easy to execute and catch. Remember, the qb begins the run down the los and the center keeps pace, just past the los. They will want to pass it right away. Force them to learn to let it develop. If they toss it as it begins, you've gained little advantage, instead they should run down the los 7 yards before throwing the pass. By then the center will be able to cut up the sideline. There are two more things that mess up the center drag. One is the qb crosses the los before he throws. The other is the center drifts out too far and then it becomes a difficult pass and catch. I stress repetition in practice.

Here is another easy pass for younger kids. Have all the decoy receivers go long and to the other side. The key receiver takes one step and comes down the los. The qb flips him a short 1-2 yard pass (basically a very short down and in). It's very similar to the center drag and I actually call it the slot or receiver drag. I even had the qb run down the los with him too but that is not always necessary. I run this out of the spread formation.

[ukce1861 0]

Hey guys, thanks for all the great suggestions. I put some of them into action for this week's practice and game and saw some definite improvements. We only had 6 players show this week, so that made some things easier, but I think we're getting better. We didn't score this week but we definitely improved moving the ball, adding a reverse and a fake off-tackle, end around. Adding those in allowed us to run the normal plays as well with some success. The problem was that we got into the no-run zone (5 yards either side of midfield) and couldn't move the ball. We've still got to work on passing. We completed two, but it wasn't enough...

Funny thing about the reverse and fake off tackle. Most of the time I lined up my two biggest, fastest kids as the ones that got the hand off first or were faked to. The other coach kept keying his defense on them and when we made the extra handoff our little kids were running free...

So how do you deal with a "win at all costs" coach? He's apparently taught his kids to block, which is illegal in our league. And half of the blocks they were using would be illegal in the NFL. Our rusher got pulled to the ground several times... The ref called a couple of flags but his philosophy was more to let them play and explain what can and can't be done. I like that attitude because for the most part these kids don't know what they're doing. What I didn't like was even after the ref told them they were blocking and that was illegal, the coach is telling his kids to block... I was really proud of my kids because while they were getting pushed around, they didn't complain too much. I told them after the game that we play fair and no matter what happens I want them to give maximum effort, which they did.

All in all, it was our best game to date and I hope it's a sign that we're getting somewhere...

[Johnp2 21]

So how do you deal with a "win at all costs" coach?

This is what I've dealt with in my first year coaching flag football (6-8 year olds/eight on eight). I am in a VERY hard-core league, and there are nine teams, with four of them INCREDIBLY competetive. They each have had the same kids for three years, and practice even during the off-season.

One of the teams (that I know of, there could be more), not just scouts their upcoming opponent, but they actually tape the game. This happened to us a few weeks back. I was unaware of the taping (until it was obvious when we played them), and the coach later admitted they do it. In the game we played them it was unreal. We run a lot of shuffle passes, and the first play of the game (I called a shuffle pass), and their defensive coach was yelling, "Watch the shuffle pass!". It was insane how much they were able to get from the tape. In our spread formation, we either run an end-around, or a long pass. Each time we would get in a spread formation, the coach would stack an additional man on the outside and play his kids in the middle back for the pass--to cover either scenario.

These teams also go for the throat. Just last week I was watching the game before ours and one of them was up 62-0 (with about one minute left) and was going for two points after their TD. It's just the way it is in our league.

We played the best team a few weeks ago, and they beat us 20-7. The problem was no one had scored on them all season (and it was known around the league). I had some vindication as it was one of my lesser skilled players who scored. However, there coach was FUMING after the game about it.

I have found my approach to be the opposite of virtually every coach in our league. I believe in teaching all the kids by keeping EVERYONE involved. Meaning not only does everyone get equal playing time, but they get equal touches. Honestly, I have one of the (if not the) best player in the league, but he only gets maybe 3-4 carries a game---and his parents are very supportive of my approach, as he was a defect from one of those teams--they did not like the mindset the coach had.

In our last game I was excited because we were playing one of the "non-power house" teams. They were about the same skill level as us (lots of six year olds who have never played), but the problem was they gave the ball to their best player 99% of the time, and their second best player the other plays. It was actually kind of sad as I know two kids from that team and was excited to see how they played, but all they did was stand at the line of the scrimmage each play.

So, how do you deal with them? Honestly, I just laugh. I would sooner lose with my approach (a true team effort) than win with an exclusionary team environment. I suspect they are all good people, but just get a little caught up in "playing coach", and their competetive juices blind them from what it really is---a bunch of 6-8 year olds who just want to play football.

Our league does allow blocking, and a lot of the teams are VERY physical. A common practice in our league is for the defender to either grab the ball-carrier's belt or shorts and hold them until they get the flag. Another common practice is to grab the ball-carrier's shoulder from behind to break his stride so he (or his teammates) can get the flag. Frankly, if the refs allow it---and ours for the most part do---we just get physical back.

I would encourage you to just do whatever you feel in your heart is the right thing, and not allow yourself to put your ego above the true reason you are there---to teach the kids football and the importance of being on a team. I'm obviously not saying you are doing that, but it is always worth mentioning to any coach as I believe it is an easy trap to fall into.

Thanks

[Johnp2 21]

I'll follow this up with stating I personally don't see anything wrong with scouting (I've done it and it was quite fun), nor do I have a problem with taping. I do, however, find it a little humorous imagining a bunch of grown men sitting around watching tapes of 6-8 year olds and spending their week scheming off of that. ;-) Just my opinon--to each is own, I say.

[ukce1861 0]

I'll follow this up with stating I personally don't see anything wrong with scouting (I've done it and it was quite fun), nor do I have a problem with taping. I do, however, find it a little humorous imagining a bunch of grown men sitting around watching tapes of 6-8 year olds and spending their week scheming off of that. ;-) Just my opinon--to each is own, I say.

I actually had my wife tape a game a couple of weeks ago and plan on having her tape either our next game or the one after that. There's so much that I miss as a coach being in the game that it was good to see on film. I didn't study it all week by any means, but I would certainly recommend it if it's available to you.

As for scouting, we all practice and play our games at the same time so that would be hard. I do peak over every once in a while at the team that practices next to us to see what's going on, so I guess that's scouting, but I don't feel too bad...

[Johnp2 21]

I'll follow this up with stating I personally don't see anything wrong with scouting (I've done it and it was quite fun), nor do I have a problem with taping. I do, however, find it a little humorous imagining a bunch of grown men sitting around watching tapes of 6-8 year olds and spending their week scheming off of that. ;-) Just my opinon--to each is own, I say.

I actually had my wife tape a game a couple of weeks ago and plan on having her tape either our next game or the one after that. There's so much that I miss as a coach being in the game that it was good to see on film. I didn't study it all week by any means, but I would certainly recommend it if it's available to you.

Sorry, I was referencing going out and taping a game (when your team is not playing) but instead taping the game of your upcoming opponent in their game prior to yours. I would love to watch tape of my own team, but taping a team that you are playing in the next game simply seems a little over the top when you are dealing with 6-8 year olds. Again, just my opinion. Sometimes I think about getting my team's parents together and asking, "Do you want me to win this next game? Do you want me to guarantee a victory?" It would mean half of their kids won't play, and 99% of the kids that DO play won't touch the ball. I think I know the answer which is why I don't roll like that.

[Orange 26]

That's pretty overboard, scouting a team by taping them. Wow, I mean that's really taking the game seriously. I will admit to scouting 2 teams that I was going to play in the I-9 tournament last fall. In the first round of the round-robin we faced a team cold. After us the two other teams in our bracket played each other. I watched the first half of their game. I didn't take any notes or anything but I saw enough to change our defense a little. When we reached the single elimination we faced two teams cold. The first one we beat handily. The second one I wised I had scouted (but they had a bye). I'm not sure we could have won but I would have had a better gameplan. During our spring season I never scouted anyone, but I did get some information on the "other team to beat," from someone. It helped a little. We split with them 1-1.

[Johnp2 21]

What's funny is a few weeks ago before our game I was on the sideline watching the teams before us play. Of course this team had their guy out there taping that game---and it's great because he comments as he's filming. "Notice how they always do their reverses to the right." . . . "#12 has trouble keeping the recevier in front of him.", etc. The guy is also a parent and not a coach, so I assume that is his role "Scouting Director". Ha!

Anyway, he was standing right next to me, and a parent of one of my players came up and started talking with me. The parent had no idea who the guy was or why he was taping and never really even looked at him. He started making somewhat snide comments about that the coach for whom the "Scouting Director" was filming. Things like, "Did you hear they won earlier today 48-0. What a class act that coach must be." things like that. I kept very quite and just smiled and nodded so as not to put anyone in an embarassing situation. I'm not sure if the Scouting Director picked up on it, but I shutter to think if they hear it when watching tape.

[ukce1861 0]

You're right, that's a little overboard...

Now I just gotta go find me a Scouting Director!

[Johnp2 21]

In a bizarre way, it's one of the most entertaining things I've seen this season. :-)