5 On 5 Flag Advice- Coaching D

[Coach KB 0]

Hello all, I have been reading the forum and it has some great advice for new coaches such as myself. I am the defensice coach for my 11-15yr old team and could use some advice on defense. At these ages, the kids can be pretty quick and if you don't have your talented kids in the right spots, you could give up many TDs. I run a man/zone hybrid currently. Where we have 1 line up over the center, 2 corners, 1 LB, and 1 Safety. This is I9 league where the LB can rush from 7 yrds out. My question is, do you all feel that it is indeed best to have your most talented player at safety? Where do you think the 2nd and 3rd most talented kids should line up? Currently I have them at the corners and playing inside a bit. I rush my lesser talented kids because although they might lack some of the skills that the others have, they are still pretty fast kids that can apply pressure. Thanks

Coach KB

[rushbuster70 16]

Hello all, I have been reading the forum and it has some great advice for new coaches such as myself. I am the defensice coach for my 11-15yr old team and could use some advice on defense. At these ages, the kids can be pretty quick and if you don't have your talented kids in the right spots, you could give up many TDs. I run a man/zone hybrid currently. Where we have 1 line up over the center, 2 corners, 1 LB, and 1 Safety. This is I9 league where the LB can rush from 7 yrds out. My question is, do you all feel that it is indeed best to have your most talented player at safety? Where do you think the 2nd and 3rd most talented kids should line up? Currently I have them at the corners and playing inside a bit. I rush my lesser talented kids because although they might lack some of the skills that the others have, they are still pretty fast kids that can apply pressure. Thanks

Coach KB

I coach in an I9 League and undoubtly our best defense is a 2-1-2...We Put our best 2 at Safety's to let them roam around do what they do best and cover the field.I have the least talented 2 up front and someone who can read the defense in the middle.The 2 up front can stop the run and short passes.The middle guy can stop middle passes and the run but also blitz.The 2 deep can have the back but also are good enough to come up and make plays for us...We also do a 2-3 Zone out of the 2-1-2 and 3-2 out of the 2-1-2 but we base everything off the 2-1-2...I wouldn't go man unless necessary because I coach the same age as you and the kids are too fast to stay with man every play.The defense gets tired and with zone its like everyone does there job and it works well.

[Coach KB 0]

Thanks for the advice. I will try some of those tactics and see how our kids do.

[rushbuster70 16]

Thanks for the advice. I will try some of those tactics and see how our kids do.

Keep us updated and let me know if you have any questions on it...I'll be glad to explain it more if needed

[HornFan 0]

Hello all, I have been reading the forum and it has some great advice for new coaches such as myself. I am the defensice coach for my 11-15yr old team and could use some advice on defense. At these ages, the kids can be pretty quick and if you don't have your talented kids in the right spots, you could give up many TDs. I run a man/zone hybrid currently. Where we have 1 line up over the center, 2 corners, 1 LB, and 1 Safety. This is I9 league where the LB can rush from 7 yrds out. My question is, do you all feel that it is indeed best to have your most talented player at safety? Where do you think the 2nd and 3rd most talented kids should line up? Currently I have them at the corners and playing inside a bit. I rush my lesser talented kids because although they might lack some of the skills that the others have, they are still pretty fast kids that can apply pressure. Thanks

Coach KB

I have the exact same scenario as you, the only diference is the age (I'm Def. coach for 6-8 years olds), and of course that makes a big diference in the planning and execution. I would say at your age group your Safety is #1, make sure he's vocal because he should be watching and cueing his movements off the QB, and then shouting to his teamates. 2 and 3 are your CBs, and they should be good at zone covereage and attacking the run on sweeps. Put the remaining two in LB/7 yrd point like you said.

My star player is always in the center position, #2 is the safety at 7 yards. #3 and #4 are the corners, 5 is the LB. At 6-8 there is little threat to the pass, but it does occaisionaly succeed. At your age I would guess that the Pass plays are 75% of the offense. But at 6-8 the passes are short and my Nose Guard has caught more of their passes then their receivers (In 2 games he has caught and run back 4 interceptions, to 2 successful receptions on opposing teams offenses).

Out of the 10 players on the team, 3 of them now grasp the concept of waiting for the play to develop before commiting to an action. My problem is all the others comit immediatly and as a result they are fooled by the reverse 100% of the time. And 50-75% of the time they go straight for the RB, which means by the time they get to him, he's now down field, in front of them, and too far to catch. If it weren't for the other 3 we would have a hard time stopping them from scoring. I'm working on new drills to help teach them how to pull flags and get in front of the ball carrier. I'm doing what one of our coaches here suggested and I'm focusing on one player during each half and that really seems to help. But I'd like to really push the "home" concept because I think it will help show them that holding in place and covering your zone is much more effective than "swarming" after the ball carrier only to get fooled by the reverse. The problem with using the "Home" concept is that the head coach constantly pushes and practices the "side-to-side" defense. Does anyone have any good advice on how to teach the "side-to-side" concept along with the "home" concept? Am I not getting the usefulness of the side-to-side deal?

Thanks,

HF

P.S. sorry for hijacking, I started out trying to help, but that just stirred up my problems!

[Orange 26]

Yesterday I went over to the nearby school and watched most of an I-9 game between two older teams. They were probably 13-14 year olds or so. The game is different at that age from what we play at the 7-8 year old level.

One of the teams was superior and I will tell you what they both did offensively and defensively.

DEFENSE:

Team 1 was the better team and they ran a zone and always rushed one. Their corners would play around 5-7 yards off the los around where the wideouts would line up. Their safeties would be behind them about 3-5 yards with one of the safeties shaded over towards the middle and sometimes with a shorter drop, around the 7 yard mark. At times it would be hard to tell who was the safety and who was the corner because they might all line up right at the 7 yard mark. But when the ball was snapped it was clear as the safeties would take drops and the corners would come forward initially and then take medium drops as the play progressed.

Team 2 played mostly man and rushed one. I saw them rush two once and they occasionally played zone. They seemed to favor man though and the other team beat them for it. Even in man coverage they played with a 5-7 yard cushion. Actually neither team lined anyone on defense on or near the los.

OFFENSE:

Each team passed almost exclusively. Team 2 ran it once. Team 1 faked a double pass and ran it (basically a lateral and then run so technically it was not a pass) once. Other than that they threw it. I would say almost every single play worked like this for both teams:

Shotgun snap

Rusher comes in fast

QB makes a move on rusher which buys extra time

Pass

I was surprised that the rushers did not show more discipline and break down in front of the QB. The QB's did not want to throw with the rusher in front of them. They wanted to shake him and then step up close to the los and pass. I thought if I were coaching the rusher I'd have them go in fast and then pull up right in front of the qb and force the qb to make a move. Then stay in front of the qb so he has to either throw under duress from way back or get into a side to side race with the rusher. Both teams sent fast rushers and this process repeated itself over and over. There were a couple of sacks here and there but most often the qb would sidestep and then be able to have a clear throw.

Team 1 ran a hook and lateral play two times for long touchdowns. It seemed to be a mainstay in their arsenal and was impressive. One was a simple lateral back to the qb after the receiver came across on a delayed short route over the middle. The other receivers took their guys away to the other side.

Team 1 also liked the double pass either for running or double passing. They ran in several times, once for a long td.

Team 2 mostly ran shorter passes either to the outside or the middle. They were able to move the ball somewhat like that but really they didn't do anything overly fancy.

[Coach KB 0]

Well, since we only practice an hour before the game, I tried to instill the 2 1 2 D and rush half the time (because the team ran a lot of running plays). I noticed that the kids had problems staying in their zone and corners followed their guys. We got crushed. The age is 11-15 and most of our kids were 11-12 while the other team's kids were 13-15yrs old. It seemed their guys were faster and better at pulling flags. Although we were able to score twice it was because our RB avoided the 1st guy and ran all the way both times. We should have played much better but like I said, I think it will take more practice to get them to stay home and get in front of the guy while trying to pull the flags. We decided to have a practice this week so we can work on it. I do like the 2 1 2 though and will mix it up with the a couple other looks.

[pointyfootball 0]

Well, since we only practice an hour before the game, I tried to instill the 2 1 2 D and rush half the time (because the team ran a lot of running plays).

I know this is an old thread, but since I essentially coached the team by myself, defense is one area I didn't spend a lot of time concentrating on. Did you only rush 1/2 of the time b/c they ran a lot of running plays? We rushed every down (or at least 90%) of the time. Only time we wouldn't rush would be if they were real close to endzone, or if they needed a lot of yards for a TD or 1st down. You can teach your two LBs (one over center and rusher) to work together. Always teach your rusher to try and steer the QB to the side that is difficult for them to throw from. So, if he's a righty, the rusher would come from the QB's RH side, and the Front LB would slide to his right (QB's left) in case a team tried to run the ball.

It's key, IMO, for the rusher to break down the last 2-3 yards (as Orange mentioned). No QB, even at pro level, likes to have someone in front of them when they go to throw. Better to not get a sack and be in front of QB, then to have the QB step aside of your rusher who races right by him.

I noticed that the kids had problems staying in their zone and corners followed their guys. We got crushed. The age is 11-15 and most of our kids were 11-12 while the other team's kids were 13-15yrs old. It seemed their guys were faster and better at pulling flags. Although we were able to score twice it was because our RB avoided the 1st guy and ran all the way both times. We should have played much better but like I said, I think it will take more practice to get them to stay home and get in front of the guy while trying to pull the flags. We decided to have a practice this week so we can work on it. I do like the 2 1 2 though and will mix it up with the a couple other looks.

More often than not, the team with better all-around athletes is going to win. Not always, and especially not in football, but if your facing a team of players that can all pull flags well and has good athleticism, your coaching job got immeasurably more difficult.

I play a 1-3-1 (man-to-man) which worked incredibly well, as we gave up less points than anyone in our division. We had 9 players on our team, two of the oldest were also probably the two weakest in the division. However we easily had the best player in the division, so it kind of averaged out. I put the best player at safety, because inevitably the QB would chuck it up at least 1-2x per game. 2 out of 3 playoff games (including SB) were won because other team did that and he picked it & took it the distance.

As to the 1-3-1, we play a LB over center who's first responsibility is the RB (if they have one). If they don't have a RB, he/she is responsible for the center. If there is an end around, or fake end around, he/she doesn't go for ball until it is across line of scrimmage. The "3" are the rusher and two CBs. Rusher is the mandatory 7 yards off LOS, and CBs are slightly closer, cheating into the middle. The Safety is 7-10 yards off line of scrimmage and is responsible for either the center (if there is a RB in backfield) or the third receiver. This player HAS to be a good flag puller.

We tried zone a few times, but since we only practice one time per week, I figured it was better to work on offense and let the team's natural athleticism and hustle to the ball do the work for defense. Personally, I loved, as a coach, when teams played zone. 10-12 y/o's just aren't disciplined enough, IMO, to truly play it and misdirection/crossing routes easily confused most teams that did it. It takes a lot of practice to get a zone to work well against a good Offense.

My $.02,

PF

[Orange 26]

Playing zone at an older level is definitely more difficult. At the younger ages it's an incredible advantage because the qbs cannot pick it apart. When the qbs get more accurate and stronger, they can find holes in a zone or go over it. I'm not saying it's a bad defense just not as obvious a choice as it is in the younger levels. An 8 year old qb will toss up a duck that a zone defender can close on with ease.

[rushbuster70 16]

Playing zone at an older level is definitely more difficult. At the younger ages it's an incredible advantage because the qbs cannot pick it apart. When the qbs get more accurate and stronger, they can find holes in a zone or go over it. I'm not saying it's a bad defense just not as obvious a choice as it is in the younger levels. An 8 year old qb will toss up a duck that a zone defender can close on with ease.

I would have to disagree at the 11-14 year old level...Its such much more an advantage playing zone.Your relying on ability playing man to man.Obviously you try not to mismatch peopel but it was still happen.We use to be much more of a man to man team and we started zone and teams have scored less & less on us.Its just a matter of teaching the zone.We run the 2-1-2 and we do incredible with it.Basically a cover 2 for the deep safetys and the others have the upfront and middle ground area and your 1 in the middle can blitz or roam the middle...Its pretty basic but works pretty incredible at our level.Especially since you cant rely on running plays.They are mostly used for misdirection or play action

[Orange 26]

Playing zone at an older level is definitely more difficult. At the younger ages it's an incredible advantage because the qbs cannot pick it apart. When the qbs get more accurate and stronger, they can find holes in a zone or go over it. I'm not saying it's a bad defense just not as obvious a choice as it is in the younger levels. An 8 year old qb will toss up a duck that a zone defender can close on with ease.

I would have to disagree at the 11-14 year old level...Its such much more an advantage playing zone.Your relying on ability playing man to man.Obviously you try not to mismatch peopel but it was still happen.We use to be much more of a man to man team and we started zone and teams have scored less & less on us.Its just a matter of teaching the zone.We run the 2-1-2 and we do incredible with it.Basically a cover 2 for the deep safetys and the others have the upfront and middle ground area and your 1 in the middle can blitz or roam the middle...Its pretty basic but works pretty incredible at our level.Especially since you cant rely on running plays.They are mostly used for misdirection or play action

I didn't say disadvantage, I said it was more difficult. I should have elaborated and said it's technically more difficult, as in it takes more knowledge or understanding than just following your man around. As you get older you can make less mistakes (but that's the same with man defense too, it just takes more thinking in zone).